MovieChat Forums > The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) Discussion > Why is this seen the weakest of the thre...

Why is this seen the weakest of the three??


For me this is the one that I'll happily put on to re-watch over and over again. It is the bridge that really holds the three films together. A clear favourite of the three films.

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It's actually the favorite for a number of people, my son included.

For Tolkien fans it's the least "Middle-earth-ish". Except for the Ents, it's primarily a standard Swords&Sorcery story, which is probably why a lot of people prefer it. There are fewer "Huh? What?" moments for people who haven't read the book. Also, Tolkien had more important things to write about and he had seen real war so the battles were not the main thing for him.

Also, the book was only divided into three parts for commercial reasons (and because of a post-war paper shortage), even though Tolkien called the sections "Book One", etc. The middle section was never meant to stand on its own and the filmmakers had to create a big ending by taking the battle at Helm's Deep (pretty much a skirmish on the book) and making a big deal out of it.

I agree on TT being "the bridge that really holds the three films together", an essential part of the bigger story. But FotR introduces us to an entire world of someone's imagination and RotK tells us about the passing of that world and the beginning of ours.

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dijomaja, I'm not sure why you keep referring to Helm's Deep as being depicted as a skirmish in the book. It was a significant and pivotal battle in the book as in the movie. A skirmish is usually defined as an engagement of the outer elements of larger military force, sometimes unintentional and other times used to probe the strength of the opposition. The warg-rider attack on the Rohirrim refugees as shown in the movie might be considered a skirmish, but the engagement at Helm's Deep definitely is not.

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Probably meant it wasn't as big of a deal as it was in the movie. It's been a long time since I've read the books but I remember helms deep being a rather small part of the two towers where as the movies makes it the centerpiece and stretches the whole thing out. There was so much more in TTT than helms deep. Yes it was a pivotal part but didn't take up the entire narrative like it does in the movie.

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Agreed. As for the other part of the question I do think the fact that this film is the least "Tolkienesque" of the three is the reason it tends to be rated either highest or lowest.

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I think this film is great. There really is no weak link in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

RIP
Jeff Hanneman
1964-2013

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This whole film capture so much emotion it's my favorite one. Lots of the rings is the only movie I have seen 10 times in the theaters and this one is my favorite

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'shroud: Point well taken in the literal sense but I was using "skirmish" in a figurative sense the way we might shrug off an injury saying, "."It's just a scratch". This was in reaction to the fact that the battle at Helm's Deep was not the most important part of the middle section of the book. The filmmakers made more of it in an attempt to create an ending for the middle film.

I thought it worked well enough and I do like this movie. I just think it's interesting that this one polarizes audience response. It tends to be the least favorite among Tolkien fans and the favorite among young guys like my son and I think the reason is the same. It's the least Tolkien-ish of the three films, more focused on battles than the bigger things that were the focus for Tolkien. Again, I think that's fine. If a new audience gets drawn into the story they may stay around for the good stuff.

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The problem I have with your figurative use of skirmish to describe the Battle of Helm's Deep in the book is that non-book readers might take your statement at face value (as I did) and thus conclude that PJ didn't deliver a faithful depiction of the battle itself. There were numerous differences between the book and film versions of the battle, but overall I thought it was quite true to the book, more so than the depiction of the Battle of the Pelennor (or - God help us - the Battle of [the] Five Armies).

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Well, I don't think my figure of speech obscured the point of the post and I doubt anyone will read the book and say, "Dijomaja led to me to expect a simple skirmish or affray but, to my surprise I found a full-fledged battle!".

In my opinion (shared to an extent by the filmmakers) the film takes a battle and makes it bigger for obvious reasons. No damage is done to the story. Because of this TTT is often rated either the strongest or weakest of the three depending on the viewer's tastes. I voted for "least Tolkienesque yet absolutely essential and thoroughly enjoyable".

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I thought it was quite true to the book, more so than the depiction of the Battle of the Pelennor

Besides the deus ex machina ghost army, I thought Pelennor was faithful.

or - God help us - the Battle of [the] Five Armies

Don't even get me started. That was nothing but glorified fanfiction.

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Pelennor Fields was such a letdown BECAUSE of the Army of the Dead. When all they are supposed to do is help Aragorn acquire the ships, and it gets turned into an "unstoppable ghost force" that ends the battle, there's so much left to be desired.

The battle is over when Aragorn shows up. It's a stunted end to a huge setup.

"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know." - Spaulding

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For me personally, Faramir is my favorite character, and I hated what Jackson did to his character in this movie. That's for another post though.

I'd say the main reason people find this the weakest (which I would agree with) is the slow pace. A lot of the film slowly builds up to Helm's Deep. I also thought this film had the most filler. Yes, ROTK is longer, but a lot more happens.

The main problem I had with this movie revolving around Helm's Deep was the fact that having Saruman's death occur at the end of the film would've felt anticlimactic. IMO that should've been the climax of TTT. Of course, none of this would've mattered that much had Jackson not cut that scene at the start of ROTK.

Still a really good film, even if not as good as it's predecessor and successor.

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This ^

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I'd say the main reason people find this the weakest (which I would agree with) is the slow pace. A lot of the film slowly builds up to Helm's Deep. I also thought this film had the most filler. Yes, ROTK is longer, but a lot more happens.


I agree with this. Building the film around the climax of Helms Deep does make sense in some regards, and it made for satisfying first viewing as I recall, but it does mean that other stuff doesn't happen.

I can definitely see the death of Saruman as a dramatically satisfying ending to the movie. It would have ended the film with a definite bang. Whereas Helms Deep is exciting and makes for a rousing finale, it's not necessarily a turning point--which Saruman's death would have been, with the punch of a main character dying in a very dramatic and surprising way. The ending of Helms Deep leaves one feeling warm and satisfied, but the death of Saruman could have actually left the audience the edge of our seats.

Om Shanti

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A lot of "book firsters" do because it tinkers more with the overall story structure laid down by Tolkein in order to fashion a workable stand alone film. I would argue that in terms of theme and tone it's actually close to the books though.

There's also the fact that it's the slightest in terms of ground covered and story progress, it really is a bridge movie and one that takes place mainly in the drab world of men. Some people find this less interesting, others find it draws them in more with its realism and grittiness.

Personally I just find it the most fun and re watchable one as the story is already in progress and the characters are off having their own adventures and overcoming their greatest obstacles. It's like Empire Strikes Back in that sense. I also just love everything about the culture of Rohan, the characters, locations, music etc...

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To be honest all 3 are movies you just sit down after a long period of stress, watch and still be mindblown every time you watch it, its understandable because 1 and 3 are considered many peoples favourite individual film of all time, because the first one has adventure and all the characters and the world comes together for the epic journey that takes place, and is the start of the trilogy, and the last one is the final film that goes all out and is extremely epic, well-made and brilliant in its story, pacing, visuals and characters and ends the trilogy perfectly, the two towers is amazing but is just the adventure continued with saving Rohan being the main story and setting up Gondor, even though that film is still so rewatchable and has a slew of good qualities including the Battle of helms deep and more middle-earth adventure

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And people who want a perfect book adaptation find that this is very faithful but less so than the others

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This was my least favourite movie of the three. I didn't like what they did to Faramir's character or the elves at Helms Deep. That was a filler, so was Aragorn floating down the river and some scenes with Treebeard walking around with Pippin and Merry but not really doing anything meaningful. It was unfortunate because if these fillers had been cut there would have been room for character development and other scenes that were more meaningful.

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I agree with what you say about Treebeard, at least until the Ents go to war. It was fascinating how they made him work, but, at least to me the scenes with Merry and Pippin are probably the least rewatchable scenes in the entire series (with the exception of the flashbacks with Arwin.)

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