foreshadowing and echoing


In another thread, I made this observation about the coronation. In TTT, when Aragorn returns from the dead, Legolas gives him back the 'Evenstar' necklace and Aragorn says, 'Hallon le' - 'Thank you'. In FOTR, at the coronation, Aragorn tells Legolas, 'Hallon le' and Legolas - with a look - directs Aragorn's gaze toward the other Elves... and there is the 'Evenstar' in person. Way back in the day, when I'd just seen ROTK, I realized I was finding lots of similar moments and initiated a conversation (on another forum) where we came up with quite list. Below are a few. Feel free to add your own or comment/discuss as suits you.

When Déagol opens his hand to display the Ring in the mud. This is an echo of Bilbo opening his hand full of mud and Ring in the Misty Mountain.

The fight between Sméagol and Déagol is echoed later by the fight between Gollum and Frodo in Shelob's cave. In both cases each is fighting the other over possession of the Ring and choking is involved. In the first fight, Sméagol kills Déagol. In the second, Gollum begs mercy and Frodo gives it.

Many see Denethor and Théoden as a pair... their situations are similar but their choices and fate differ. There is a scene with Denethor where we see blood-red wine(?) seeping out of his mouth. The shot suggests gluttony and by inference, indifference to his son. Later we see red blood seeping out of Théoden's mouth as he lies dying under Snowmane. This is a symbol of his heroism in the face of certain defeat.

And when the four hobbits come back to the Shire, the hobbit that was sweeping his front walk when Gandalf arrived for Bilbo’s party is again sweeping his walk, but this time he is making faces at the four hobbits as they ride by.

In Mount Doom, Frodo is hanging on to the cliff and Sam reaches down to pull him up. The hand clasping is reminiscent of the scene at the end of FOTR when Frodo is reaching into the river to save Sam. The same desperate hand clasping - they saved each other in so many ways.

Gollum means to eat a worm in the TTT EE version (at Dead Marshes?) and Sméagol is dangling a worm at the beginning of ROTK.

Frodo holds Sting to Gollum's throat at the beginning of TTT and Frodo holds Sting to Sam's throat at the end of TTT. (An indication of the swing of sympathies/hostilities that we will see develop in ROTK?)

When Frodo panics because he has lost Gollum in Shelob's lair, you hear Gollum sing "why do you cry?" just as he did to himself when he is captured and beaten by Faramir's men in TT.

During Théoden's death scene, he opens his eyes to find Éowyn and says "I know your face." just as he does in TT when Gandalf delivers Théoden from Saruman's spell.

In ROTK, Aragorn tells the dead army to "Be at peace" when he releases them, just as he told Boromir the same in FOTR. Both Boromir and the dead regained their honor by fighting for the cause of good.

While the hobbits are climbing up past Minas Morgul, Gollum urges them on, saying "Come, master, come to Sméagol!" -- the exact inverse of what Frodo said to Gollum at the Forbidden Pool.


I actually have lots more but lets see if folks want to jump in with their thoughts first.

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The one that comes to mind first is Elrond's flashbacked account of trying to get Isildur to cast the Ring into the fire, recreated in great detail with Frodo and Sam, right down to similarly framed shots and matching dialogue ("Cast it into the fire/Throw it in the fire! Destroy it!"



Denethor sends Faramir (the person who loves him most) on a suicide mission, a perverse impulse generated in part by Denethor's twisted desire to have the Ring; the very next scene is Frodo sending Sam (the person who loves him most) home, a perverse impulse generated in part by the Ring's twisting influence on Frodo, deviously played by Gollum.



In the EE, Boromir's first two lines are spoken to Aragorn, and they are "You are no elf!" and "Who are you?" This is essentially the abbreviated synopsis of Aragorn's story in the movie, particularly as it plays out vis-á-vis his relationship with Boromir. Later, along the Great River, when Boromir entreats Aragorn to lead the Fellowship to Minas Tirith, he echoes with "You were quick enough to trust the Elves....All your life, you have hidden in the shadows...Scared of who you are...."

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Here's a comparison shot of Frodo and Isildur ... along with Frodo's first look at the Ring and his last.
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=422828#422828

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Gollum's first appearance in TTT has him creeping down from the rocks above very spider-like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePzOShBS9uU

This is interesting because 1) Gollum's dirtiest trick and pivotal betrayal is serving Frodo up to Shelob 2) and, although it doesn't come up so much in the films as it does in the book, Gollum is a de facto minion of Shelob - at the very least they have a sort of unholy alliance.

The intro scene of Gollum from TTT has, I think, some strong visual echoes in the scene in RotK of Shelob stalking Frodo from the rocks above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnSBIr0Yfhk

Interestingly, the former ends with Frodo brandishing Sting to get Gollum to release Sam; the latter ends with Sam brandishing Sting to get Shelob to release Frodo.

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Good catch on the visual echoing between Gollum and Shelob. And with the use of Sting in both cases.

Tolkien often compared Gollum to a spider. When Gollum is shadowing the Hobbits in Emyn Muil, Sam says, "It's that Gollum! Snakes and adders! And to think that I thought that we'd puzzle him with our bit of a climb! Look at him! Like a nasty crawling spider on a wall.'"

And later, in the same scene in TTT that you linked to, Tolkien wrote, "the cliff was slightly undercut, and even Gollum could not find a hold of any kind. He seemed to be trying to twist round, so as to go legs first, when suddenly with a shrill whistling shriek he fell. As he did so, he curled his legs and arms up round him, like a spider whose descending thread is snapped."

There are three more descriptions of Gollum as 'spider-like' in TTT. (and likely more in the ROTK)

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There is a scene with Denethor where we see blood-red wine(?) seeping out of his mouth...


Although I think it was enhanced for dramatic effect, it was (supposed to be) cherry tomato juice; he was eating those at the time.

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He is eating (and squirting) cherry tomatoes but the color dripping down his chin looks way too red for tomatoes. I think it's wine even if we don't see him drip the wine. Or, they just intended it to be tomato juice but punched it up in redness to make it creepier (which is totally something PJ would do).

But either works. That comment was originally written after only 1 or 2 viewings of the movie in the theater.

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Or, they just intended it to be tomato juice but punched it up in redness to make it creepier (which is totally something PJ would do).


That's what I think. He bites into the tomato, it squirts then they show... whatever it is or is supposed to be... dripping from his lips. Whatever, it makes him one cold dude and Pippin's song catches the irony of it.

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