Offensive? - Music of the Heart (1999) Discussion

Jane Leeves is English and speaks with her English accent.

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[–] tohu 17 years ago

Well I am English, and Jane Leeves' accent is a bit strange. Her 'Manchester' accent in Frasier was always a bit wrong (and then all her brothers and her parents came in and they all had different accents!) Her accent in this film? I couldn't really understand what she was aiming at.

She seems to do the thing that a lot of British actors do when they are working in America: i.e. they speak they way they believe Americans think English people speak! To real English people it is just very annoying.

_____________

"Maybe I should go alone"
- Quint, Jaws.

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[–] kelbardi 17 years ago

To Sir With Love was a story about a black teacher in a deprived school. It was really good too.

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[–] CharteredStreets 17 years ago

I'm British, and that accent was NOT from any part of England that I know.

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[–] TheTaleTeller 17 years ago

Jane Leeves had to mix her English accent to the way the real Dorothea (who is German) speaks. That's obviously her real English accent.

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[–] elvin315 16 years ago

What about Morgan Freeman in Lean On Me? Will that do? Was the school deprived enough for you? Was Freeman black enough for you? A true story is what it is. Bad enough Hollywood plays with the facts most of the time. Do you want them to change the people's races too? Be thankful these inspirational stories get told at all. If it doesn't have explosions, gratuitous sex, or wizards, a movie is a hard sell to a studio. Wes Craven had to make a deal to get this one made. I for one am glad he did.

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[–] elvin315 16 years ago

What about Morgan Freeman in Lean On Me? Will that do? Was the school deprived enough for you? Was Freeman black enough for you? A true story is what it is. Bad enough Hollywood plays with the facts most of the time. Do you want them to change the people's races too? Be thankful these inspirational stories get told at all. If it doesn't have explosions, gratuitous sex, or wizards, a movie is a hard sell to a studio. Wes Craven had to make a deal to get this one made. I for one am glad he did.

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[–] dathaler 16 years ago

There's also Edward James Olmos in "Stand and Deliver", though he's Latino not Black.

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[–] CharteredStreets 16 years ago

I haven't seen the movies you mention so perhaps I am misrepresenting it... but nevertheless my point about black female characters in movies still stands, I reckon. The mother who argues with Meryl Streep is a stereotype we've seen too many times.

If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like!

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[–] nyntv 16 years ago

That mother is hardly a stereotype. I've seen it happen all too many times. When I was a student at Tufts University, several of the minority students volunteered to tutor at a severely disadvantaged school in Boston's Columbia Point that had a majority black student population. That was in the late 70's so if you know Boston, I don't have to go into it any more.

I tutored English and biology. One of the students said to me, she had no intention of speaking like "stuck up white people," and accused me of speaking in such a manner. That was the consensus of the majority of the students. They had no interest in getting help with their studies or even thoughts of pursuing higher education because they said that was a "white thing." I found it remarkable we, the tutors were accused of "acting white, and talking white." What's up with that? Since when does using proper grammar and having good diction equate with speaking like "stuck up white people?" It was ignorance at it's highest and many of those kids rolled all over in it and were quite content to do so.

Out of nearly 40 students, less than 10 wanted to continue with the extra help and went on to do well in their studies and eventually attend college or junior college. That's a pretty sad statistic considering we had close to 40 who were supposed to work with the program.

I didn't find anything offensive about this film at all. If nothing else, I found it sad as the remark the mother made to Streep's character is not that far off the mark at all. I've heard it many times, only phrased in different ways. That was my experience. It was a struggle, it was difficult, and many times I wanted to quit because it seemed to me the students didn't give a damn and had such bad attitudes. Those few kids who wanted to move on gave us the motivation to continue to teach them and the rewards of seeing them succeed made it all worthwhile.

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[–] CharteredStreets 16 years ago

Since when does using proper grammar and having good diction equate with speaking like "stuck up white people?"

I see your point and it does not, but surely you have to meet the kids half-way? You have to engage with the students on some level.

If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like!

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[–] emuir-1 12 years ago

By meeting the kids half way you mean being dragged down to their level? I came from a deprived background and I can tell you that many of the disadvantaged wear their ignorance, bad speech and bad manners like a badge of honor. Any one of them who does try to advance and get a head is pulled back and ridiculed "who does he think he is" and "I knew his father when he was pushing a barrow in the market" "Calls himself a hair stylist, he used to cut hair in his grandmother's basement." They resent success and will go out of their way to stop the people trying to get ahead, and if they do succeed, lose no opportunity to remind anyone and everyone of their humble origins.

The film by the way is based on a true story, which was made into a documentary but without the romances.

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[–] e-bow 16 years ago

Have you not seen Sister Act 2: Back In The Habit?

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[–] stagebandman 16 years ago

It seems to me the principal of the school, a position of authority and importance, was black. And without her guidance, the music program would probably not have survived, so maybe you should take another look. This was a diverse, inner city school, with many different races. Are you suggesting that people of the same race should "stick to their own"? Gee, who should be offended now?

The Christian Left - there's more of us than you think.

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[–] CharteredStreets 16 years ago

Um, what? When the Hell did I say that? I'm talking about telling this story as if it's some influential inspiring tale when in fact it doesn't seem to relate to the real problems with schools, and I thought that mother character was a stereotype we've seen a million times before. My point, and I'll admit it's been more than a year since I've seen the movie so it may be a bit foggy by now, is that there is a shortage of good female black characters in movies, and something about the stance of the movie felt condescending. At no point did I say ANYTHING about segregation. 'Who should be offended now?' Um, given what you just took from my OP, probably me.

If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like!

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[–] stagebandman 16 years ago

Nice diatribe, but you did not address my point, which is there was a strong, black female, along with a fairly strong latina, and yet you insist it's all stereotypes.

The Christian Left - there's more of us than you think.

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[–] CharteredStreets 16 years ago

Sorry I was clearly sidelined by you suggesting I'd said that blacks should 'stick to their own.' I don't really recall the strong, black female principal probably because like the strong angry black mother, she didn't have a personality. I'm not saying that there aren't 'strong' black female characters, I'm saying the problem is all they are is 'strong,' and it's patronising. Everytime a black female character is in a movie, particularly when this movie came out, the movie seemed to feel the need to do something political with the role.

If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like!

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[–] marbleann 16 years ago

CharteredSteets I am with you. Way too many times the black female is portrayed as angry, loud. Other times we are portrayed as the mammy type who are all over weight and bossy. I have talked about this many times. I complained about the show The Wire because of that. If you look at that show you would think every single black women in the inner city was angry, loud and sometimes willing to let their children do anything to make a dime. Now they had a black women cop and a black women politician. Where is the balance the inner cities are filled with hard working black women who are not angry and loud. I believe is a not only racist but is also is classism. I have many complaints about this.
I am not even going to get into the problem that I have with this movie and other movies like this They ignore the accomplishments that the black teachers do to help the students. They only make movies about some white savior coming into the black areas to save the masses. When is the movie about the man who started the Boys Choir of Harlem? Where are movies about all of the black unsung hero's in the community? I can think of one or two but that is about it.

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[–] CharteredStreets 16 years ago

Thanks for agreeing, I thought my point was getting a bit lost. Black female characters in movies, particularly ones from deprived inner city areas, are forever represented as being loud, angry, 'strong.' I agree about the leap between these urban warriors and the politicians etc. we now sometimes see - they went too far one way and now they go too far in the opposite direction. And yet the stereotypes around black female characters are still somehow in place. Where is the subtle range of human nature?

If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like!

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[–] marbleann 16 years ago

Well I think the problem is that most of the people involved in the media are people who know the least about the black community. I say that even about the black people involved, not just the white people.
Just because a person is black or latino it doesn't mean they had a lot of exposure to the inner city or other black people. They too go by stereotypes. See white people do not understand that concept because white people in this country have for the most part never lived in a community that had no other white people. But many times black people have been raised in areas when there might be very few black people. So when they hear a black person state they are black they automatically assume just because the person states they are black they know about what is going on in the black community. A assumption that is wrong a lot of the times. So when they see a black actor or film maker they assume they might know a lot the black community, when in reality they might not . That is why I felt you got a lot of opposition about what you were saying. They know little about the real black community an find nothing wrong with the stereotype we have been bombarded with about black women.

For example I lived on Long Island, I also lived in the city. Long Island has enclaves of black communities, it is very segregated. Some of the black communities are dumping grounds for welfare and drug addicts even if the people are white, they dump them in black areas So a lot of those areas are not the best. In those areas MOST of the people are hardworking people who have the burden of paying high taxes because most business's have fled the area. Very few of the black mothers single or not act like the stereotypical back women you see. Now I spent most of my time in the cty beause I worked there and I was born there and lived there until I moved to th island. Again I will tell you most of the black women there do not act like the ones we see on tv.

Now around 15 years ago I moved to this area on the island which is very high class. There are scatterings of black people but not many. The black people I met there and who have lived there most of their lives are just as clueless about the black community as white people are. Even the black people who were not well off but live in white areas like Centerreach and Riverhaead, clueless.

I come online here and can tell if a black person was exposed to the black community by how clueless they are about something being a stereotype. Many of those types of black people are making movies and are acting or are news and media people, Do you know people who take up journalism or english lit as a major in college are the wealthiest group of undergrads in college. So many of the people writing about us are probably the people who know the least about the black community or any community of color. Latino's complain about the stereotypes too. People complain about Spike Lee Even though he was middle class like me he also lived n Bed Sty so he knows the deal. A lot of black film makers, like rappers would not know directions to their nearest city no less been to one more then once.

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[–] fachevy 15 years ago

I just signed onto this message board today for help with a movie although I have been coming to imdb for maybe 8 to 10 years now..I got help with my question and found this movie I was looking for. I loved this movie. However, out of curiosity, I read a few of these posts. This has been an interesting discussion and I see it is over a year old. Now, I am not a racist..I love all people whether they are white, black, brown, yellow, green, or purple etc. as long as they are decent hard working people. The one thing I thought was amusing is CharteredStreets is talking about sterotyping black females in movies as "loud, angry, and strong." I read every post and kept waiting on someone to mention something rather amusing but they didn't so I will....You're quote at the bottom of every message sounds "loud, angry, and strong" itself...."If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like! " lol just funny to me....anyway, good discussion although I am a year late..y'all take care!

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[–] CharteredStreets 14 years ago

Lol it's actually a quote from Seinfeld, hope it doesn't actually come across as aggressive! I just find it kinda funny.

If I have to tell you again, we're gonna take it outside and I'm gonna show you what it's like!

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[–] BruceKahn 13 years ago

Disclaimer: Middle aged white guy here.
I think that the principal DID have some depth of character, she showed frustration, impatience, dedication, warmth... but yes, mostly loud and angry....
So while not as... ahem... black and white as the OP characterizes, generally her point is correct. Glad I could put this debate to rest.
;)
Frustrating that after the list of movies about minority teachers in struggling minority schools, someone still asked why there are no such movies.
Jane Leeves accent... I wonder where she grew up? Accents can become a mixture of things, foreign to any one, depending on exposure.

www.brucekahn.net
Be there or be.... not there.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Howlin Wolf 12 years ago

The mistakes of other movies aren't really THIS movie's fault, though.

Born when she kissed me, died when she left me, lived whilst she loved me

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[–] elihuevalerio 12 years ago

"The mistakes of other movies aren't really THIS movie's fault, though."

VERY true. Plus, if you watch the movie closely enough, you see the "angry black mother" come back at the end right before the concert and she an Meryl Streep greet each other with a hug. Not a mere hello or handshake, but a warm, welcoming hug that suggests a type of sisterly love that makes them both equal. This really shows how both characters evolved over time, willing to put aside their differences and make things work, and there was an apparent friendship (however strong or simple it was, we do not know, but it was there)

So that being said...does that give them some depth of character? Methinks so.

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