Or at least an anti-heroine?
As in, it was her who deliberately wanted to kill Rita's character in the movie, or was it all a lot more complex and complicated than that?
Sort of how, in "Lost Highway" (1997), for instance, we were not too sure if Bill Pullman's character Fred really killed his wife then, right?
And also, for a supposed "villainess", they actually made her character not only ambiguous, but also somewhat if not completely sympathetic, but was all of that just a deceptive facade? And her potential target and victim was that of another woman, with whom she even had a love scene in the movie? My oh my, if that's the case, isn't it also a little shocking in that sense?
shareRemember the SCENE where the DIRECTOR says:
THIS is the GIRL
And NAOMI who's there for the AUDITION runs out of the place before meeting the DIRECTOR???
My theory is SHE's the GIRL who KILLED the other GIRL they find after they take the CAB to that other apt and find the DEAD BODY.
Also NOTE the way RITA's memory also comes back to her again after that and she WAKES UP saying the same words that we hear being said on STAGE in the THEATRE of SILENCE where they REPEAT again what's taken place at that AUDITION where we also see an ALREADY DEAD GIRL singing that EVERY LITTLE STAR SONG.
Because we also hear the DIRECTOR saying PLAYBACK which means they're playing an AUDITION TAPE.
So what most likely happened is NAOMI goes through RITA'S PURSE while she's still in the shower, FINDS all of that CASH, along with RITA's wallet which probably also contained her dr. license with her address on it.
Then NAMOI probably also goes to RITA's place hoping to find still more MONEY, but finds the other girl there instead (RITA's lover), and they get into a fight and NAOMI KILLS HER (which explains why RITA got so upset when they find her CORPSE).
And that also explains the reason why NAOMI RUNS AWAY when she hears the DIRECTOR saying: THIS IS THE GIRL, because she probably also thought the MOB MEN were COPS and she was about to be arrested for murder.
Also NOTE the way she's NOT as INNOCENT when she does the other AUDITION SCENE as she pretends to be with that other OLD COUPLE when she first arrives in town.
So YES she's probably also suppose to be a VILLIANESS, but like you say LYNCH has also made it so AMBIGUOUS that one gets FOOLED by the DECEPTIVE FACADE that he creates.
Also keep in mind how he also has the HIT MAN that she hires to KILL RITA killing 2 other people after he kills his other friend. So in a matter of a few min he also turns what starts out to be a FAKE SUICIDE SCENE into looking like a DOUBLE HOMICIDE/SUICIDE SCENE. And others also say how STUPID he was, but what he does was BRILLIANT (in a VERY DEVIANT kind of way).
Then we also have that other HIT JOB that turns into the LIMO getting HIT by the "JOY RIDERS" before they can KILL RITA before NAOMI hires HIT MAN JOE to kill her again.
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No, she’s just anti-heroine. She didn’t kill anyone; she killed herself.
shareThis is too simplistic.
You miss lots of other SNEAKY SUB-TEXTUAL stuff that's happening with this analysis.
NOTE the way you NEVER see the DEAD GIRL who sings EVERY LITTLE STAR (ON TAPE) ENTER or EXIT from that BOOTH the way that you see the other group who sing the other song at the AUDITION.
And you also NEVER SEE the DEAD GIRL standing there with them after she sings the song either.
But you do see her at that CAST PARTY kissing RITA (the same way as you also see NAMOI IMAGINE that she sees RITA standing in her kitchen when she's NOT THERE and on the couch when she's also NOT really there either).
Therefore we also know that the DEAD GIRL wasn't really there at that CAST PARTY kissing RITA right in front of her husband to be. But NAOMI probably IMAGINES seeing her there due to the way SHE'S THE GIRL who killed her.
At least that's the way I see it.
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No, she SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER pays a hit man to kill her ex. She's crushed by guilt, remorse, and her own failure, and kills herself afterwards.
shareOP: Your question is reductive. Besides, what makes you think the story has to have a villain?
shareThe movie DOES have a villain. Two-thirds of the movie is basically Diane creating this fake image of herself being little miss innocent and a victim of cruel and mean people. Yet it turns out that she murdered her ex-roommate.
shareGod, you're dense. Diane didn't "create" that image of herself. That's actually who she was. Then the glamorous, successful Camilla (her lover, not her roommate) seduced her, then treated her heartlessly, ending their relationship publicly in the cruelest way. Diane, alone in a strange city, her career a complete failure, then betrayed by the woman she passionately loved, was pushed to the brink. She lashed out in revenge, and finally killed herself in despair and guilt. Not exactly a villain.
Since you need to believe the story (maybe all stories, in your case?) must have a villain, consider casting the shameless Camilla in the role. "This is the girl!"
Crackpot. Crank. Wackadoodle. Jackass.
She calls herself "Betty" in the dream precisely because she is pretending to be something she's not.
She fantasizes herself--as Betty--having this whirlwind affair with Rita--who is Camilla--who had rejected her in real life.
She imagines Joe--the hitman--to be an incompetent boob, because she is secretly hoping he never went through with the hit and spared Camilla.
There are many moments in the movie when it's clear that Diane is creating an idealized version of her life and how she wish everything had gone down or is changing everyone's personality to fit her fantasy.
But that's neither nor there. Diane is a MURDERER. You don't MURDER people because they were mean to you. Only SOCIOPATHS do that. That is why Diane is the villain.
I mean, seriously--who the hell sees a sociopath who murdered someone as the good guy and the victim as the villain? You have some seriously FUCKED UP, screwed up morals, and I'm sick and tired of coddling damaged people on the internet who come to sites like this looking for validation for their fucked up views.
"Coddling damaged people"??? ROTFL!!! You're delusional.
Do you really not get that the segment where Watts is Betty is a dream? You don't control your dreams - hello? She couldn't deliberately be "pretending to be something she's not." Your whole argument is baseless.
"She imagines Joe--the hitman--to be an incompetent boob, because she is secretly hoping he never went through with the hit and spared Camilla." Where do you get that? Again, LOL!
And if you get so enraged by a Moviechat post that you descend to the level of abusive language, then you're the sociopath.
No doubt you'll have to spew out more angry nonsense. Spare yourself the effort. I won't bother to read it.
Guys, can we not all get ALONG please? Thank you!
share"She imagines Joe--the hitman--to be an incompetent boob, because she is secretly hoping he never went through with the hit and spared Camilla."
I thought that it is common knowledge that there's a precise explanation for this movie. Az the beginning someone falls asleep, begins to dream. Dream shows idealized version of actress meeting women with amnesia. Dream ends with entering the blue box. Flashback of real incidents starts. Unsuccessful actress has affair with other actress, gets dumped and hires killer. Finally jump forward to her waking up and shooting herself. The end.
shareAnd would you also say that the comparison of her character to Bill Pullman's "Fred" in "Lost Highway" (1997) is in any way appropriate?
Come to think of it, was HE the villain of the film, that is, if you even UNDERSTOOD most of that movie in the first place, and did he REALLY kill his wife Renee and then IMAGINE himself to be that Pete Dayton mechanic?
Haven't seen LH for a while. I remember it being more ambiguous than MD. Not sure about the whole "villain" thing. Basically it's a story about refuted love resulting in a passion crime. Don't know if that necessarily makes her a "villain".
shareI like Ebert's take:
"David Lynch loves movies, genres, archetypes and obligatory shots. "Mulholland Drive" employs the conventions of film noir in a pure form. One useful definition of noirs is that they're about characters who have committed a crime or a sin, are immersed with guilt, and fear they're getting what they deserve. Another is that they've done nothing wrong, but it nevertheless certainly appears as if they have.
The second describes Hitchcock's favorite plot, the Innocent Man Wrongly Accused. The first describes the central dilemma of "Mulholland Dr." Yet it floats in an uneasy psychic space, never defining who sinned. The film evokes the feeling of noir guilt while never attaching to anything specific. A neat trick. Pure cinema."
FRED seems to have been POSSESSED by THE MYSTERY MAN, the same way as LELAND PALMER (and LATER AGENT COOPER) got POSSESSED by BOB.
Because how else do we explain the scene where THE MYSTERY MAN is talking to FRED at that party where THE SPOOKY song by the CLASSICS 4 is playing (at the same time as he's speaking to him by calling him on the phone at his OWN home)???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZLQW2qr5Hs
Lost Highway Mystery Man at party
In the cool of the evening when everything is getting kinda GROOVY,
I call you up and ask you if you'd like to go with me and see a MOVIE,
First you say NO, you've got some plans for the night,
and then you SMILE, and say, ALRIGHT ...
JUST like a GHOST you've been haunting my DREAM
so I'll PROPOSE,
on HALLOWEEN
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I don't think there's anyway to know for sure what LYNCH was up to in LH, anymore than you can be sure what he's up to in MD or in IE. But in an interview LYNCH did ADMIT that MD and IE were films about the FILM INDUSTRY (like ERASERHEAD was about the way we have OTHER FACTORIES or INDUSTRY POLLUTING the place in that film and turning the HEAD of HENRY into ERASERS that were produced on the ASSEMBLY line).
And the ASSEMBLY LINE PRODUCTION process that takes place in HOLLYWOOD, can also turn people into VILLIANS (if they do something to try to ILLIMINATE someone else who they're in competition with for a LEADING ROLE).
And since someone took out a HIT on RITA before BETTY/DIANE does, that may also mean it was because someone else wanted to make sure that she couldn't compete with them for a ROLE that they wanted. Or maybe it could also have been the WIFE of ADAM (the one who sleeps with the POOL BOY) who wanted to get rid of her because she was having sex with ADAM as a way to try to get the part that she wanted in his film (which also seems to be confirmed at that CAST PARTY that they have near the end of the story where they're about to announce their engagement to each other).
Anyhow, there also seems to be a lot of "CUT THROAT COMPETITION" taking place for parts in films in MD (which is also what BETTY/DIANE is talking about at that CAST PARTY where we also see THE COWBOY character again).
The NANCY KERRIGAN/TONYA HARDING matter that took place back in the mid 90's is still another example of how UGLY things can get whenever you've got people who COMPETE with one another for a TOP POSITION.
‘Villain’ is too simplistic and binary for this sophisticated film. Watts’ character is the protagonist, it’s just that she was driven to murder through mistreatment by her lover and Hollywood in general.
shareMaybe a tragic but guilty anti-heroine then?
sharehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCfHW3N3vo
The Terrible Secret of Mulholland Drive
I personally don't agree with a lot of the things that this guy who REVIEWS the story has to say, but others have found what he says to be very impressive.
The part that interests me is how he says a DIRECTOR isn't going to go to the trouble of SETTING UP expensive SETS for an AUDITION, and would only do that when they were actually making the FILM.
But we also know LYNCH did that for INLAND EMPIRE (when he made the RABBIT part of it).
Still another thing to NOTE is how ADAM also mentions to the MOB MAN (the one who SPITS OUT the coffee at the meeting) that he's already been FILMING the movie (which also makes it ODD that he'd later on be doing AUDITIONS for it). But perhaps that might also suggest that there's some kind of a TIME ISSUE involved that we're not aware of ??? Or that what we see isn't happening CHRONOLOGICALLY???
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I mean, that’s less inaccurate I guess, but forcing the characters into the hero-villain spectrum just isn’t helpful in this case.
shareThere's also the chance that RITA was never really her lover (due to the way that the scene where we see her NUDE on the couch ... and standing there in the KITCHEN ... were just a FANTASY ... which is also confirmed for us by the other scene where she attempts to try to pleasure herself there on the same couch).
Still another possibility is the couch scene with RITA was also another REHEARSAL SCENE for a film (like we previously saw Rita rehearsing with BETTY for the other AUDITION that her AUNT RUTH was suppose to have SET UP for her).
In other words, the CRUSH that she has on the ACTRESS, and the affair that she's suppose to have had with her, may also only have happened INSIDE of her mind.
And/or the REHEARSAL SCENES that she does with her may also have seemed REAL to her when they were just REHEARING for a scene together.
As for KILLING herself, also NOTE the way the ROOM fills up with the SAME kind of BLUE SMOKE as we see at the THEATRE of SILENCE when the MAGICIAN disappears from the STAGE.
And that also seems to imply that the CORPSE of the other girl at the other apartment was placed into her bed as a way to have others think it was HER BODY when it was not.
And then she was FREE to ASSUME another NEW IDENTITY (Diane) -- as a way to keep the same MOB MEN that were after ADAM -- from coming after her -- for KILLING the other GIRL that the MOB MEN wanted to be in ADAM'S FILM.
Anyhow, I also agree about how SOPHISTICATED the story is, so much so that one can never quite be sure if what one thinks they know about it is right or not.
‘Villain’ is too simplistic and binary for this sophisticated film. Watts’ character is the protagonist, it’s just that she was driven to murder through mistreatment by her lover and Hollywood in general.
What makes you choose to capitalize one word and not another?
shareIt's a STYLE that I picked up from someone else who use to use it several years ago. And since some of the messages that I post tend to get a bit long, it also comes in VERY HANDY for whenever you need to re-read a post again.
Because then you can SKIM through what's been written (very much the same way as you do when you SKIM though the TOPIC HEADINGS of an OUTLINE in order to find what it is that you're looking for).
Because using the BOLD or other options also means you need to keep typing those brackets and little b's and i's, whereas using CAPS is much quicker than that.
PLUS I also have EYE ISSUES, and the SMALL PRINT also hurts the eyes. So using the LARGER PRINT is also much easier on the eyes.
So Did you watch that VIDEO???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCfHW3N3vo
He thinks RITA represents the CASTING COUCH in HOLLYWOOD and isn't suppose to be a REAL PERSON at all. .
But I don't think I agree with that theory, no matter how much sense it makes IF you chose to see things that way.
Because I still think BETTY finds the MONEY in RITA's PURSE while she's in the SHOWER (along with her address on her DR. LICENSE), and then goes over to RITA's place, and KILLS the other girl who catches her breaking in (which also explains why she knows the window is open when they get there after BETTY leaves the AUDITION and they take the CAB there and find the DEAD BODY).
Seeing as who Naomi's character was based on (Amanda de Cadenet), I would say villainess is the right word.
Read more about it: https://popcultmaster.com/2018/10/02/the-ties-that-bind/
Mulholland Drive is a companion piece to Ellie Parker, also starring Naomi.
In fact, we're not even certain that Diane and Rita aren't one and the same.
You know how it goes, between being a great actress or a movie star, sometimes people end up being both . . .