Arranged marriages: any thoughts? - East Is East (2000) Discussion

[–] nish-11 18 years ago

One thing I must make clear though is that in Islam, the arranged marriage should not be forced as was done in the film because it appears that neither the guy or girl gave their consent, but the parents decided - this is wrong not only from a moral point of view, but also from a Muslim point of view. The correct "Islamic" way is for the parents to choose appropriate parnters, then the girl AND boy has to agree to the marriage AFTER meeting each other. If either the boy or girl refuses, then another partner is found and so forth. Alternatively if the boy or girl meets a suitable partner themselves then in Islam this is also acceptable, aslong as they have both recieved "permission" from both sets of parents. My worry is that people who watch this film and don't know any better might assume that the way the arranged marriages are portrayed in the film is normal practise amongst Muslims or Pakistani families in general, when this is definetly not the case.

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[–] sweetie10-1 18 years ago

Arrange Marriages is an abuse of human rights, why chose a partner for someone who they don't know and obviously won't love?. I disgaree with arrange marriages, they should be made illegal. We live in a society where people are free to chose their life long partners, these traditional Islamic and South asian have no right to impose their values on their children who are westernised. By the way I am not stereotyping about muslims and south asians, the arrange marriage is common within their culture.

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[–] qbhadain 18 years ago

i nearly had an arrnged marriage 2 sum1 hu is lke 10 yrs older then me. if u dnt get a say as 2 hu ur marryin den dat is not fair. my uncle dnt get a choice adn now he is divorced, his ex wife tels every1 dat he is dead. and he is not aloud 2 c his daughter.

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[–] Pineapple3000 18 years ago

sweetie10-1 said:

"Arrange Marriages is an abuse of human rights, why chose a partner for someone who they don't know and obviously won't love?. I disgaree with arrange marriages, they should be made illegal. We live in a society where people are free to chose their life long partners, these traditional Islamic and South asian have no right to impose their values on their children who are westernised. By the way I am not stereotyping about muslims and south asians, the arrange marriage is common within their culture. "

"Arrange Marriages is an abuse of human rights"

I think you're getting arranged marriages confused with forced marriages. Arranged marriages nowadays, as Aishwarya said in Bride and Prejudice, are more like a global dating service -

1) Parents look for potential spouse for son/daughter
2) Both girl and boy meet to get and know each other (with chaperone)
3) They decide if they want to get married or not

"why chose a partner for someone who they don't know and obviously won't love?"

They will know who the person is and I know many people who have had these arranged marriages and have fallen in love with people and have had successful marriages.

"I disgaree with arrange marriages, they should be made illegal."

That will probably mean that some people will never get a chance to find a suitable partner either because they are not a socially active person, or if mixing witht the opposite sex is discouraged in their religion/culture/family. I think people should just have the choice wether to have a love or arranged marriage.

Marriages where the boy and girl are forced or do not know each other are not legal in Islam, and I personally believe that they are wrong.

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[–] aabenham 17 years ago

Unfortunately, forced marriages (where the bride or groom doesn't give their consent to marry) DO happen.

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[–] PeykanTM 17 years ago

Arranged marriages are more of a cultural thing rather than a religious one.
It seems that in South Asian countries like Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka,... arranged marriages are common no matter what the religion.
There is no religious justification for it.
Also in a lot of countries they have semi-arranged marriages, meaning a man and a woman are matched up but if one or the other is not willing to get married, then nothing happens.
I am not a expert on this though. I grew up in a Iranian household so I don't really know much about the Indian or Pakistani view of marriage.

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[–] joey-tribbiani 18 years ago

95% of the world get married through arranged marriages.

The whole love marriage thing (although an appropriate way of getting married) is popularised in the west but an echo of lust and romantic courting rather than having a life long partner.

Research has shown that in the end, the love which comes over a long period of time is the same whether arranged, romantic or love marriage.

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[–] lkitten901 18 years ago

I believe that there is nothing wrong with it when the children are able to consent to marrying their long term partner. I think that movies have a tendency to not accurately betray other cultures. As Nish indicated, "East is East" does not accurately potray an arranged marriage. As you may have read in his text, children are able to choose whether they wanted to marry the partner that their parents have chosen for them. In this sense, it would be inaccurate to say that it was a human rights issue.

It appears to me that in Western society, people are in love with the idea of being in love, and that the Westernized version of courtship is overrated. Who is Western society to critique another culture whenever their divorce rate in the USA is about 50% or higher?

I personally believe that real love occurs after getting to know the actual person, and not the ideals that you project upon them. Love is likely to happen in any situation, even in arranged marriages. With the divorce rates as they are, it would appear to me that many people are not able to adequately find themselves a suitable mate. With that being said, maybe the Islamic countries are on to something, and perhaps, we can learn a thing or two from them.

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[–] tia_529 18 years ago

I agree 100% with Nish.

Arranged marraiges aren't a bad thing if agreed on by both sides...

I thought, while East is East was a funny movie, it had alot of inaccuracies about Pakistani's and Muslims. Just watch it as it is: A Movie (a piece of fiction) and you should be OK...Im not saying it doesnt have a bit of truth in it either.

"If at first you don't succeed, cheat, repeat until caught, and then lie!"

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[–] welkinson 18 years ago

Nish is a fool. Islam does not agree with his/her version of "proper Islamic" arranged marriages. He/she would like to believe that his/her beliefs are "religiously sanctioned". They are not.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with arranged marriages (and considering there is a 50% divorce rate in the US, I suspect the question SHOULD be "is there something wrong with "love marriages"? The fact that "love marriage" is one of the most Orwellian terms I have ever heard is another point entirely) so long as the ones marrying have an independent and important-final say on the matter.

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

I don't think divorce rate has anything to do with it, in arranged marraiges there is greater pressure to make it work and not divorce which has been taboo in the Asian culture but is now becoming more common, I know plenty of people that have arranged marraiges and are not divorced but are painfully unhappy, also more and more are getting divorced and one day it will be as common a divorce rate as love marriages that u r referring to. In my opinion both love and arranged marriages can work and both can not work, it depends on the individuals involved. It's personal preference and it is silly to criticise either, what works for some people doesn't work for others.

Arranged marriages depending how flexible they are are no different to a dating agency, ur parents introduce you to people, you then chat on the phone, meet up for coffee etc and see if u like each other. They just seem to have a negative image in the media and are misunderstood. Depending on how religious the family is affects the flexibility involved.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] IMDBUser77 16 years ago

In response to Rick-670's point of view.....

The marriages are not solely "to bring others in" to the country, but more to do with the mindset of a lot of Asian families. But, as you say, it can bring others in as a result of this.

I know a lot of Asian families who have sent their sons off to their homelands to be married as the parents feel that the women there are far more cultural and abiding to religious values compared to women brought up in a Western culture. Asian parents feel that, even Asian women, brought up in a western society are more likely to be "corrupt" (eg going to night clubs/drinking alc/eating meat, etc - taboo). Also, the "home-bred" lady is likely to be more lenient and submissive in a relationship as they are from a 3rd world/developing country.

You are right in saying that parents do want what is best for their sons/daughters, hence the mindsets of these Asian families are to marry and bring over a lady, and possible their families, from their homeland. This would be seen as less "hassle", close-knit family and less likely to divorce over "petty quibbles", especially if the family is religious.

I have to say that I myself don't fully agree to this notion and feel that of recent countries like India are losing their culture!

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[–] scouse_chrisjones 16 years ago

Yeah, but why should our country have to pay benefits to these families that come over with the arrangerd bride/groom?!?

I respect other people's cultures and within their reliegions they can do what they want. But for my taxpayers money to have to pay benefits to families coming into our country through an arranged marriage or child benefits to cultures who allow multiple marriages and there fore multiple children within them is a disgrace!!

For marriage/love etc, do what you like, as long as you pay your own way!

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[–] IMDBUser77 16 years ago

I can only speak for monogamous relationships here - I have never come across multiple partners situation.

A lot of the Asian families that I have come across certainly do get into part-time/full-time work to support their families rather than to live off benefits - they soon realise that benefits only go so far. But you do get a few rotten apples - hence my last comment in my previous post. Also the person who has established himself in eg. UK is already working/paying tax anyway, and the partner he brings in from their homeland tends to end up working part-time at least.

Frankly speaking, benefits/tax system is something you need to take up with the government and their policies, if there is any bitterness there.

If there's any consolation, I too pay tax! And so did my dad when he settled here and got his job.

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[–] emble_90 18 years ago

If my father ever tried to make me marry someone who i didn't like i would run away.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Biscuits_with_legs 17 years ago

Genital mutilation is used as a joke in this. Wouldn't you call that child abuse?

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[–] missy-t1 17 years ago

Are you talking about circumcision?

I like that Aishwarya Rai quote. Very befitting.

And Nish..you are spot on. Thank You! Although the poster after you did not read anything you had wrote!

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[–] Pineapple3000 17 years ago

"I like that Aishwarya Rai quote. Very befitting."

*Blush* Why, thank-you!

LoL, I'm hyper :D

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] sirabbey 17 years ago

As someone mentioned before, I believe people are confusing forced marriages and arranged marriages.

Forced marriages are cultural and are not islamic

Arranged marriages are also cultural but do fall in line with islamic guidelines.

I am having an arranged marriage. My parent's friend knew someone who was suitable and available and brought the two families to their house for a meeting.

I met with her and got to know her. Met her again a couple of weeks later and popped the question. At no point were we forced to say yes. We each had the freedom to say no and pull away.

It's arranged in the sense that someone did the matchmaking for us but we both still had to like each other enough to feel like it can work.

Isn't everything we do in life a way to be loved a little more? - (Before the sunrise)

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] spam_1155 16 years ago

People even western people are chosing arranged marriages now!

Or if you really want to stretch it, match making services can techinically be called arranged marriages if the people get married, so why moan when its family who want the best for there children.

If it is two consenting adults saying yes whats the problem, like most of the people have been saying on here some are getting arranged and forced confused.

If it make people happy who are we to bitch about it.

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[–] dspear7777 12 years ago

At the marriage age, people are often caught up in romance, sex, and rebellion. They haven't experienced breadwinning, homemaking, parenting, objective decision-making, or mutual compromise. These all work against them evaluating the chances of a successful long-term relationship. I think the parents, who know what marriage is and may have a more objective view of what their child is, may well be better at choosing a life-long mate than the child himself.

It is usually not realized that love is a primal decision of the person loving, not both people. The archetypal love is between a mother and her infant. In this, the infant is totally incapable of returning any love. The mother has had 9 months to grow to love her infant, and this love has nothing to do with what the child is like. The child grows to love the mother (and father) after perhaps 1 year regardless of what the parent is like.

If a mother always grows to love her child, whatever the child is, a teen can generally grow to love his/her mate, whatever the mate is like (within reasonable limits)

An example of an arranged marriages is in Fiddler On The Roof, with beautiful the song "Do You Love Me?"
"Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?"

How can a marriage be forced on anyone? The whole point of the ceremony is to insure that bride and groom are making the ultimate decision by saying "I do". If this is coerced, the marriage is invalid.

The western method of marriage has been so unsuccessful that there are now millions of single-moms who don't trust marriage at all. And millions of dads, who unhappily live without their own family.

I think that arranged marriages may well be a better plan than the western method.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] dspear7777 12 years ago

Thank you CakesAndAle for your excellent response. I agree with you! There are certainly bad arranged marriages. For example...

My own mother was the fifth daughter, so there was little dowery left, and so the matchmaker gave her a bottom man to marry. I can't judge their relationship, but after their divorce when I was 2, he definitely wanted her, never hit or dominated her, and gave her voluntary support my whole childhood. He also stepped in when she remarried and left us with him, and became an excellent parent.

I saw him want her my whole childhood, and be denied. This hurt my view of manhood tremendously. My whole adult life has been distorted to insuring that my wife would never ever leave me, with many serious compromises toward that end. But I have been very happily married for 39 years, partly because I didn't dare risk divorce and living the life I saw my father live. But I can say marriages can he highly successful if you don't go in with wrong expectations.

So single-momhood can hurt a son badly. To a daughter, it also fails to teach the daughter how to get along with a husband, and discourages her marrying. And to the family, it creates additional financial and time burdens.

A decent man (and there are many many) brings to a marriage financial support, protectively (I know a father who ran into flames to rescue his child, getting very badly burned himself), and perhaps an objectivity that can better balance the long-term family needs against the childrens advocate.

A decent woman brings to a marriage a softness and flexibility (like Edith Bunker), advocating for the children who can't state their own cases, a caring heart (balancing the man's seeking head), patience, and sacrifice (starting with the difficult childbirth)

Your phrase "they have a right to happiness" show some non-acknowledgement of the right to happiness and very survival of the children, as my case demonstrates. No doubt, my mother was happier divorced, but her kids weren't.

The children's welfare is the reason marriage was invented, and this is an excellent reason to "tend to frown very strongly on divorce (if it is even permitted)". Perhaps, western women should be more concerned over the benefits marriage offers their children, and both mates should try harder to not be primarily concerned with their own happiness, but rather to "stay together out of duty". The family in the movie recognized this, and ended up staying together through very difficult times (I agree that George hitting his wife and son were totally wrong, and think that George himself regrets his shortcoming there)

The above is the result of 69 years of experience, and I doubt that any of it is in the body of a man feeling his attraction for a low-cut blouse (and why are girls wearing sexy clothes if they aren't, incorrectly appealing to man's superficial side). Hence, someone who knows the child pretty well, is more experienced, and less involved with the immediate attraction, may be far far more likely to make a better choice for this vital life-long commitment.

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[–] 12 years ago

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