Did anyone else feel that.. there was this big lead up to Gyllenhaal's character being in love (homosexual or just heroworship) with Leto's.. and something actually happening.. or attempting to happen?
Really felt like there was some serious scenes missing or some script cutting going on..
yesss! I was thinking the same thing. A couple of times I thought they were into each other... or one of them was. That probably would've made me like the movie a little more.
share[deleted]
Being that I'm gay I thought the two guys were as one character says, "in love". I've seen some movies where two closet cases dance around their feeling for eachother before... or is that my life? Anyway, no doubt this movie seemed to almost hint at bisexuality. Just never comes right out and says it.
shareI'd be interested to read the orginal screen play.. because I think it was in there and either it's been edited out or producers have insisted on it being out..
Homoeroticism? I did not get that at all from this flick! Check this out:
Pilot mentioning "sexual confusion" and Cassie's comment, "Are you guys by any chance in love?" don't necessarily mean that Pilot is lusting after Jack. It came across to me as Pilot being more SHY sexually, and perhaps he has a physical problem. This is suggested in the scene where he and Lucy are in bed and he tells her they're not going to do the whole "Is it me" thing again. When Jack is trying to convince Pilot to visit the Dan D Fine, Pilot is very reluctant (Shy), and Jack passes a comment, "If there's something wrong with your pipe, the Dan D Fine'll clean it out." (This hints at a physical problem.)
Also: when Pilot is about to go into the bedroom with the hooker, note the anxiety in his eyes! (Sexual shyness)
THEN: He obviously works out whatever is the matter, 'cause he comes out of the brothel psyched as hell!
And Cassie asking if they're in love was OBVIOUSLY sarcasm. Come on people, easy on the overanalyzing!
You have a "shy" friend at school that you want to fall in love with you, don't you?
sharenot gonna read alll the crap in this here thread thingymabob but this dude (marly516) is obviously right. i thought it was pretty obvious that pilot has a little problem "getting it up" so to speak... but maybe that was just me. and i guess being from florida where everyone calls everyone bro and all that crap that went on in the movie, i wouldnt assume they were gay. thats how guys act in cali and vegas. thats how guys act in florida... its kinda like a desert/beach bum kinda thing i guess (guys here and there also tend to talk about eachothers sex lives in great detail... which would explain pilot asking if he came and such...its just two young vegas guys being two young vegas guys). but i didnt catch any homosexuality in the movie at all... but ofcourse i might be wrong :) and ya... anyone who didnt realize that cassie was being sarcastic when she said the "in love" thing wasnt really paying attention.
p.s. i think pilots "sexual confusion" is just an excuse... or just a way to explain off his problem. he doesnt know whats going on and thinks he has a problem so he just writes it off as sexual confusion
oh ya and p.p.s. - i would definatly see all the little subtle looks pilot gives jack and such as envious worship. jack is the king of *beep* and pilot cant even get it up for a girl...im sure you can imagine that he would envy jack quite a bit. (by the by i also dont think he went through with the stripper) heh sorry i know i said i wouldnt read this whole thing but i kinda am now
[deleted]
hahahaha
i agree
I don't know...I liked whatever element of homoeroticism there was as it was, which was kind of subtle, like another layer to their friendship. I think it would have been too easy for them to hook up in the end, too similar to Y Tu Mama Tambien, and way out of character for Jack.
So I think it was a good call, not censorship.
Yes it would've seemed a little too much like "Y tu mama tambien". Two best friends, a girl, a road trip, they hook up, etc. But I did have the same idea all of you had about the homoerotic tones. Can anyone explain me why Pilot asks Jack after he spends the night with the Cassie, if they had sex and if he actually came? And what was the deal with the look in Pilot's face after Jack answered yes?
shareI guess maybe Pilot had a more than platonic thing for Jack but I don't think it was requited, and it's hard to tell the difference between attraction and envious worship. It's an interesting movie.
shareYou'll notice that they did'nt show the supposed sex scene between Pilot and the prostitute. I don't think he went through with it, he had feelings for Jack. Which is ironic because Jake Gyllenhaal(Pilot) is playing gay in his next film and his name is Jack.
shareThank you!! That's what i've always thought - that no way did he go through with it! I don't know if was in love with Jared Leto's character, but there was definitley some sexual sub text and chemistry there, but maybe just from Pilot's side...and that's why he really hates Selma Blair's character getting in the way...anyway, i enjoyed this film sooooooooooo much!
share[deleted]
Did you even watch the movie? The hints are all there, you just don't want to see them.
And nobody ever accused Jack of being gay. If you bothered to read, we're all pretty much going with the unrequited angle. Pilot loves Jack, Jack loves Cassie. Get it now?
I think he asked because Jack never came before; a sign that sex was nothing but a game to him. But when he came with Cassie, it meant he actually *felt* something for her, and Pilot probably knew that would happen but was saddened/annoyed/disappointed to see it.
This movie was just two really good friends; I think people put too much into trying to turn everything into some type of homosexual undertone. However, no one mentioned [that I saw] anything about Cobain--who was once quoted to say he would try out guys if he wasn't married to Courtney. So who knows; maybe this whole movie was just a bunch of gay guys.
... but I seriously doubt it.
One the other hand [yeah, I'll shush in a sec] what's up with Johnny's blond haired friend? Family, friend, or partner, hmm?? lol I think you guys just wanted to see Jared and Jake get it on LOL Bah.
I think there was some subtext there but I feel the feelings were from Pilot towards Jack but they weren't returned. Pilots problem is he couldn't get hard with his girlfriend...if it has always been that way..which it seems to be. Then it imo was because of his sexuality and him being more attracted to men.
Also when they introduced Johnny Fox...I felt subtext between him and Pilot within seconds. Johnny was very protective of Pilot and there seemed to be something unspoken between them. Many moments of hugs lasting too long etc, and the whole dancing in the field was a moment they shared. Maybe Johnny just got that vibe from Pilot as I also wondered if the blonde guy was Johnny's partner and that he was gay.
"My life is a show, a commercial for people to see how normal I am,when I am really anything but."
just because two guys are close friends doesnt make them gay...you are all horrible people.
shareI don't think the homoeroticism was totally one-sided on Pilot's part; I thought Jack seemed a little jealous of the fact Pilot set up the trip to go find Amy, not just for helping Jack
shareWhat part about everyone thinking that these two characters were gay or bisexual makes everyone that commented in that regard "all horrible people," shaver8? There was no bashing going on. Get a grip.
share[deleted]
I don't think their character's are gay. Yes Pilot is sexually confused due to the fact that he's practically high 24-7.
Why do you wear that stupid bunny outfit?Why do you wear that stupid human outfit?
Obviously the homoeroticism wasn't totally unintentional because they ended the film with a quote from Jack Kerouac's "On The Road", where the two main male characters have a thing, it's very homoerotic. I think the filmmakers intended for the homoeroticism to be in the film, and to be subtle. I think it works. It was great in this film.
sharewhy? what's horrible about homosexuality? Dont see Brokeback! You can't handle it!
suzycreamcheese RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008
Who else would have paid good money to see jake and jared get their groove on? they are two of my favourite hollywood actors on account they are both just so fit!! damn that kirsten dunst and scarlett johanson!
shareI dont think they are gay, i think piliot just really wants to be like Jack, in the begining when it had all the falshback *beep* from when they were kids, there was that one part where Piliot was shootin *beep* with a water pistol at the carnival and looked all excited cause he thought jack was lookin, but jack was pimpin on thoses to teenage chicks, what else, uh, that part where johnny the fox ask if piliots jelous, which he is thats why hes goin to seattle, i dont know theres other *beep* but im tired.
shareThey both have such bad taste in women...kirsten is such a plain jane, gal next door, and scarlett - don't even get me started on her funny face...
shareTHANK YOU. I hate kirsten dunst. Stole my man...
shareI know! i hate kirsten dunst! her tits are so gross! how they just....hang out with her knee's.
I think they were a couple o' hotties and they shoulda totally SNOGGED and SCROGGED! Yeah!!
Sorry, I just wanted to freak out the prissy people.
they're actually both sexually confused/frustrated/messed up, whatever. jack hasn't came in 5 years, and i think pilot was comfortable knowing that he wasn't the only one who had sexual problems.
share[deleted]
I'm surprised so many people here saw the undertones as well. I saw this on TV yesterday, and while I don't think "they were gay", I think that Gyllenhall's character came off as probably being at least bisexual. But it seemed like his affection for Leto's character was something that he hadn't articulated, either to himself or others. The character didn't seem like someone who would pause to ponder such an issue and its ramifications. Rather, it was something less a matter of "thinking" and more a matter of "feeling/emotion".
And after he came out of the cathouse, didn't he tell Leto's character that they hadn't had sex, and that he'd simply talked to the prostitue like a psychiatrist or something? If I recall correctly, he was so happy because he'd gotten some things off his chest...
I do think though that he also had a "crush", if you could call it that, on the girl in Seattle. The one who he felt he'd spent such a meaningful night and connected with, but who later ended up not remembering or recognizing him.
| Fools rush in--and get all the best seats. |
I dont really think there was any homoeroticism in the movie. The reason pilot didnt like cassie was because she was getting in the middle of his and jack's friendship. it happens quite often.
Also, often best friends begin to act like a married couple just because they know eachother so well. I dont really consider that homoeroticism because if you say it about this movie then you'd have to say it about joey and chandler on friends or the dudes from perfect strangers (with balki.)
on a sidenote, the person that said that in "on the Road" the two main character had a "thing" must have read a different book than the one i read and i've read it many times.
there was definitely some sexual confusion going on with both charactors. just that Jack was better at hiding it.
shareI agree, I thoought I was the only one that noticed that. A kiss would've been nice to see
share[deleted]
Rebel,
Okay, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this whole thing... but many people, and this is where it gets hypocritical in my opinion, get off on two women kissing or being intimate with each other. That's not natural either. I'm not saying that you are one of those people, though I must admit I am curious about your view on the two women thing, I have just heard so many people make that comment then see two women kissing and it's the hottest thing in the world.
Also, any two people who have any form of sexual intercourse risk HIV and other diseases, it's not just guys...women can get it from each other as well. Also, a man making love to a women can also mean HIV and not a child.
I know that's not really what you were getting at but the phrasing made it so I had to say something.
I guess a lot of this stems up from my slightly feminist ways and how women are fewed as sex objects and men as strong figures. It's okay for two women to be intimate because they are weaker and it turns guys on. But it's not okay for guys to show emotion because it makes them a pussy (I know a very sexist saying, did it to make a point) and grosses guys out. GUYS ARE HUMAN! They give into their emotions and their feelings and if they want to be close to another man (once again not saying whether I agree or not) let them. It's happening, it's been happening for most of history. If there is a time when it wasn't mentioned it's because it was hidden, not because it didn't exist (like most of history).
I think I'm done now, I wasn't expecting that to go on that long. Sorry.
Mary
Mary,
Thanks for the well-thought out reply. I absolutely agree with you on the hypocrisy of many guys in this matter. I will say this: Morally, I agree that any kind of homosexual behavior is wrong (that doesn't mean the people are evil, or freaks, or anything like that, but the act is always wrong). However, two attractive women behaving this way does not physically revulse me like two men...this is culturally the way I and most guys are wired. I agree with you on that double standard.
Maybe I should have phrased it like this: If men and women followed God's plan (referring to the God of the Bible), and saved themselves sexually for their heterosexual spouses, there would be no HIV/AIDS epidemic. Many healthy, happy babies would be born.
You say "if guys want to be close, let them." I agree with this (as long as they keep their parades to themselves).
However (getting off topic to my real strong feeling on the subject), what I will not "let" is for them to try to change what marriage has been for all these years and adopt children. People say "oh, it's better for them to have loving parents." Wrong. I've worked with troubled kids for almost 10 years now, and almost without fail (although there are some single mothers who have done AMAZING jobs)...the kids who struggle the most are the ones without their mom and dad at home with them. It's been proven over and over again kids need a strong male and female role model...not 2 females or 2 men who act like females.
Don't apologize for going long. It's been a pleasure.
~R
scuze me, but BULL. The ancient greeks saw homosexuality as and exhalted form of male friendship. Other early cultures saw it as normal. It is just recently that they have criminalized it. And r u forgetting that whole deal about HIV being passed from man to woman also, or are you conveniently leaving it out to prove your (wrong) point??
share[deleted]
Eh, health class was a waste of time. Yes, not every heterosexual encounter results in a baby (thank God), and HIV can be spread that way...but it was homosexual behavior that made it spread like wildfire (if not actually started it, as many theories say).
I appreciate you trying to be politically correct and tolerant, but homosexuality is not natural and has little to do with love. I don't want to be vulgar, but sodomy is extremely painful for any species.
~Rebek
I dont really consider that homoeroticism because if you say it about this movie then you'd have to say it about joey and chandler on friends or the dudes from perfect strangers (with balki.)
Hollywood needs less homoeroticism, not more.
I don't hate gay people. But seeing two guys kiss literally makes my skin crawl. Not because they're evil people, not because I'm insecure, but because it's just not natural.
Sure Pilot might have been a lil curious but Jack was totally straight, they were just bestfriends. You gay guys do know that lots of straight friends aren't homoerotic, just good friends. I guess gay guys always think that when a straight guy hero worships another guy, he's into him sexually. If it were up to the gays there'd be so much gay sex in movies and guys kissing guys, hahaha, it's just sad. Go watch Brokeback Mountian and then you can talk about it being uberhomo and not just homoerotic. I wonder if people go on the Mississipi Burning board or maybe the Freddy Vs. Jason board and ask the same question.
shareI did kind of get the feeling that Pilot (Gyllenhaal's character) hinted at bi/homosexuality, but I didn't get the feeling from Jack (Leto's Character). However, I think that you have to look at the time period this movie is set in. It takes place in the grunge era where a lot of people were in awe over Mr. Cobain. Besides that guy that Jack and Pilot met along the way, he was gay, and it showed when they got to Seattle. I really don't think that it's fair to compare this movie to Brokeback Mountain either. This movie is a good comic movie filled with adventure, Brokeback Mountain is a movie of substance and class and will be an American classic in the future. Either way you look at this movie, it's good and it serves it's purpose. As far as Hollywood needing less Homoeroticism goes, I think Hollywood is doing it to challenge the beliefs of society. It won't lighten up until it's socially accepted. Here's a small list of movies containing Bi/Gay characters: 1) Brokeback Mountain 2) The Hot Chick 3)Hitch 4)Alexander 5)American Pie and the list goes on and on, but somehow, those "gay" characters are the ones that get most of the attention out of the movie....interesting huh?
shareuber homo? It wasn't just some "gay cowboy movie". It was a love story, could have happened to anyone, in anyplace, anytime. Go see it. Then you can bash it all you'd like if you still think its' "uberhomo".
share[deleted]
Okay fallen angel23 I'll bite. I am sick of people going to every actor's board asking if he or she is gay. I am sick of people asking if characters in movies are gay when clearly they're not or the writer makes a gay joke(it's funny when a straight guy acts gay). It gets old. I just liked this movie and thought Pilot might be curious but the other guy showed no gay intentions or tendencies. They were just bestfriends. I'm sure you could look at any two guys who are really close(have known each other forever) and think, wow, they must be gay. It's so redundant and annoying, people shouldn't give a sh*t if someone is gay unless the person is out. Sorry you think that I'm ignorant(ignorant is also an overused word). Oddly enough a critic described one of the characters as a sexual predator and I did happen to see Brokeback Mountian. The reason I said you could go say ubergay instead of homoerotic is because that movie is clearly about two gay cowboys(okay so they claim they were straight at first) but no straight guy would fall in love with a guy. Bi or bi-curious maybe. I'm sorry to say but if someone is truly straight, they don't fall in love with another man or have sex with another man. It's not like girls who just do it to be trendy or piss daddy off. Like Family Guy said, it's not a choice, well not for guys.
shareJust saw Highway last night and had to comment on this. Being one of those women who watch most media through slash-tinted glasses. I've been a slash writer and reader for nearly ten years, so my interest was piqued when I read this comment.
First of all I love that everyone can use places like this to post their comments and opinions, as everyone is entitled to them.
I do see slashy undertones from Pilot, though not from Jack I have to say. From Leto's character all I get is intense friendship, that bond that comes from having known someone pretty much all your life.
The film for me does carry a sense of homoerotic undertones, nothing really that you could pin any moment with, more a case of subtle bits of curiousity. Using the word sexual 'confusion' rather than 'frustration', two moments when outsiders either question or approach Pilot with homosexual innuendo (club and alligator boy), and some subtle expressions from Pilot at various moments throughout the film; in the car when he askes Jack if he came after his night with Cassie (of course this could be attributed to jealousy - both at his own inability to satisfy himself and jealousy of Jack's time with Cassie rather than his best friend) specifically.
Personally I think I enjoyed Pilot's character more anyway, he seemed to have so many layers and emotionally very complex. (Plus Jake Gyllenhaal is both gorgeous and a brilliant actor).
Of course the fact that the other main reason for the road trip was for Pilot to chase the girl (Amy) and when he returned at the end it was for his 'girl in Vegas' so that's pretty conclusive that Pilot at least at that point considering himself heterosexual. Of course you could (if you wanted) interpret the girl Amy as a 'fantasy girl' from Pilot's past, someone he has glorified in his mind due to his current physical/sexual/emotional problems, someone he remembered (or not!) as being with successfully and happily (physically and emotionally) and he was striving to find that again. Hence 'fantasy'. Returning to his girl Lucy could also be a return to the familiar and to someone who loved/accepted him, rather than pursue something that at that point was unconsciously out of reach. If he did have feelings for Jack, he could see that his best friend is now happy and safe (with mending feet) with Cassie and that this was his own safe place/home to return to.
I could ramble on more about this but am horrified with how much I have written now!