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Why did the filmmakers try to make all the characters dicks?

posted 10 years ago by glynis23-282-577521
36 replies | jump to latest

The fundamental problem with the film is there's no one to root for the protagonists aren't likable and you wanted the villain to win. If we were suppose to root for Kevin Bacon then why did they have him rape his neighbour and then have him look like a victim seeing his ex-girlfriend with someone else?, if Shue and Brolin are suppose to be the heroes then why are they shown making love behind Bacon's back? it would've worked for a different character but not for a main protagonist and why is everyone a bunch of loudmouths?

Feels like the filmmaker used only the first draft or was more into the special effects, sex and violence, they just couldn't decide on why should the audience care about the characters.

[–] Prismark10 10 years ago

I think you are supposed to root for Shue even though her and Brolin are not that interesting.

Its that man again!!

[–] glynis23-282-577521 10 years ago

If the filmmakers wanted us to root for Shue why did they have her and Brolin make out behind Bacon's back? seems they couldn't decide on a characterization and stick with it. The characters are either mouthing off or being goody goody.

The character development for this film is really uneven.

[–] Prismark10 10 years ago

I think it was established early on that Bacon and Shue had finished so there was nothing behind the back about Brolin and Shue apart from that they were all colleagues and those two may not had wanted their affections public, especially to Bacon.

Its that man again!!

[–] glynis23-282-577521 10 years ago

Then why put it in when it was obvious that the audience wasn't gonna root for them?

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 9 years ago

To explain Bacon going over the point of no return. That was a motive for killing them. The audience can root for them all they like, especially since they didn't do anything wrong.

Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I

[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

It works for another character but not for a protagonist. It looked like Shue left Bacon for Brolin, it felt forced like a excuse foe sex scenes. Another problem everyone is either mouthing off at eachother or just come off as cold and shallow.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 9 years ago

Well it was established that Bacon and Shue separated a long enough time in the past. There wasn't a sex scene since they were advancing the story. The reason they might come across as cold and shallow to you is because they've been working together extensively for some continuous weeks. Their life over the course of the movie is pretty much their jobs. If you were closed-off from the rest of society, spending your days in a building doing work with your small amount of colleagues who are the only people you interact with, wouldn't you be sick of it too?

Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I

[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

I understand that but the trick to any protagonist is that the audience should be invested in them, you don't step outside yourself and try to make them a right douchebag or unsympathetic, just make them a character an audience can root for, if the actors can sell it then it works.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 9 years ago

Well, I don't happen to agree with you on this. You can look at it as a Slasher by the end, or a character study, or a dramatic Thriller, or whatever else fits. We don't really have to be rooting for anybody during the Finale, although I find it easy rooting for Shue and the other guy. The other victims were more sympathetic, and I don't see a good reason for siding against them.

Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I

[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

But it would seem everyone was rooting for Kevin Bacon to win, think because they didn't approve of him as team leader, they held insults at him, they knew he was going mad and didn't deal with it.

If there's no characters that the audiences cares about then it isn't working, just becomes a crap story.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 9 years ago

Bacon was arrogant and cocky before going mad. The audience isn't supposed to like him much from the start. If they didn't approve of his leadership then why wouldn't they insult him? There was nothing they could do about him going over the edge, which was entirely his fault by the way. He sacrificed himself to be experimented on in the name of Science.

If you for some reason don't like the Supporting characters then obviously you do care about them. In which case it is working. If you watched it until the end then it must not have been that bad.

Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I

[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

Read the other threads they say there's not one likable character in the film and wanted them all to die.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 9 years ago

I'm not going to be doing that anytime soon. I liked all the characters enough, if others here feel differently it's no skin off my back. Peace.

Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I

[–] easytoenvy3 8 years ago

I agree I was hoping that shue's character got killed, because her character was a slut. any women who goes around screwing her male co workers one by one , is a slut.

[–] glynis23-282-577521 8 years ago

It was quite obvious nobody was gonna route for Shue or any heroine who screws her male co workers, but Verhoeven was so into horrible, despicable characters just ignored it. It's something that you can't get away with in movies especially in the good vs evil routine.

[–] easytoenvy3 8 years ago

you know, this is the first syfi movie that I have seen, where none of the characters are perfect.

[–] glynis23-282-577521 8 years ago

Maybe they tried too hard to make the characters not so perfect. Verhoeven's trademark character traits were initially interesting but gotten overboard in his later films.

I don't know any other Sci Fi film where all the characters are horrible.

[–] easytoenvy3 8 years ago

I would like to see more of his stuff.

[–] glynis23-282-577521 8 years ago

RoboCop, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, Showgirls, Starship Troopers, Black Book.

[–] easytoenvy3 8 years ago

I had no idea that he made those films, I have seen those.

[–] d_o_n_u_t 9 years ago

"I think it was established early on that Bacon and Shue had finished so there was nothing behind the back about Brolin and Shue apart from that they were all colleagues and those two may not had wanted their affections public, especially to Bacon. "

I thought so too but when Bacon said that Brolin was riding on his coat tails for years it made me realize that he must've been bugging him all these years and he probably was the reason why Shue and Bacon broke up.

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[–] Wuchak (8068) 2 years ago

Good insight.

[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

For some reason or another Verhoeven is always trying to make his characters ether not totally good or edgy or having them mouth off at each other.

[–] manram24 9 years ago

I rooted for Sebastian.

Y'know, I could eat a peach for hours

[–] d_o_n_u_t 9 years ago

I completely agree with you.

I know Sebastian wasn't a saint, but I just kept rooting for him. I was so disappointed when Linda ruined his plan. Your post made it really clear to me to why I was rooting for the villain instead. All of them weren't likeable at all.

[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

It's pit of a problem with Verhoeven is that he often tries to make his characters especially the heroes not totally nice and a lot times mouth off at each other mostly with his post Total Recall films. It kinda works for RoboCop because of the world he is in but not so much for Hollow Man.

[–] d_o_n_u_t 9 years ago

Oh.. so it's not the first time he'd done this. I did not know that, as Hollow Man was the first movie that I watched by him. But it's a shame that he often goes by this pattern, making all characters unlikeable like that. I know Hollow Man was not perfect but I liked the movie and it could've been so much better in so many ways. Had Verhoeven avoided making the hero unlikeable.. or at least the supporting characters.

I also read on the other forums that this is his last English-speaking film and it was because of how disappointed he is with Hollow Man.. maybe it is time for him to realize that it doesn't always work that way =)

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[–] glynis23-282-577521 9 years ago

He seems to be arracted to loud or cynical character types, people screaming at each others faces. Kinda worked for RoboCop due to the violent world it's in but not so much for Hollow man, all it did was alienated the heroes from the audience.

Verhoeven did make a promise to himself after Hollow Man that he would only make a movie that he cared about, with Hollow man he just did because he could not because he felt he should be doing or it should be done.

[–] MickyMac (2934) 7 years ago

The film was filled with shock Verhoeven characters and shock Verhoeven sex & violence which did nothing but damage the film.

[–] DustnBones001 8 years ago

People nowadays through around the term likeable and unlikeable characters too much. I'm happy that these film was not filled with the typical goody 2 shoes characters. And I was rooting for Sebastian the whole time.

[–] josephdonavyn 8 years ago

I was rooting for Matt & Lynda; I thought sabastian was always obnoxious, obsessive & when he raped that girl that just solidified he was a bad guy. Matt & Lynda were okay characters enough, I actually liked Sarah though. She didn't take sabastian' smart mouth shi*t & slugged Lynda with a good right hook

[–] DustnBones001 7 years ago

I rooted for Sebastian

[–] MickyMac (2934) 6 years ago

Think it was all a excuse for on screen swearing and on screen sex.