MovieChat Forums > Sleepy Hollow (1999) Discussion > An interesting idea that didn't quite wo...

An interesting idea that didn't quite work.


Personally, I think that a film pitting 19th century rationalism against a genuine supernatural threat could have been interesting.

I can't say it worked in "Sleepy Hollow". The first time I saw it I kept expecting the Scooby-Doo Reveal, where Crane pulls the mask off the Horseman to reveal some character we know and explains all his tricks. I'm getting the same feeling with this repeat viewing, even though I know it isn't coming, but I don't suppose Tim Burton approves of the triumph of rationalism.

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I have no idea what you mean, it worked just fine for me. I only thought some of the special effects were silly.

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It's nice that someone liked it, after all the trouble Burton & co. went to.

But then, it's not like I actually dislike this film, I just think it fell short of its potential.

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I doubt I'm the only one who likes it, but, hey, to each his own. I just genuinely don't see the problem you're seeing.

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Good Stoney flick for Halloween!

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I love it. Great film to watch in the fall.

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That's exactly what it was, rationalism vs a supernatural threat albeit one controlled by a person. In the beginning, Crane tells you the supernatural is not required for murder. What is more surprising is that there actually was a supernatural threat.

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Eh i liked it quite a bit

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I like this film quite a lot. It's in my library. Tim Burton does not make films about Cartesian Rationalism. Not one of his movies contains the line, "Je pense, donc, je suis," or, "Cogito, ergo, sum." Sheesh!

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Sheesh indeed!!

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There WAS a genuine supernatural threat! It just wasn't the horseman but rather the Hessian. While the horseman did turn out to be a fake, the Hessian is very much real and otherworldly, and there are multiple instances of genuine supernaturalism in the movie.

I think the movie works quite well. In fact, I love it. It's one of my favorite movies of all time.

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The horseman reveal (of the fake) was symbolic....

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It's true that the viewer initially expects Scooby to show up, but the setting of 1799 removes that possibility (not that anyone seriously expected it) augmented by the frightening supernatural events that take place at the Tree of the Dead.

There are four things that really impress me about this picture besides Depp: (1) I love the spooky Fall atmosphere; it obviously takes place sometime in gloomy November. Burton really knows how to make a great-looking picture. (2) I always thought the concept of the headless horseman was insipid, but "Sleepy Hollow" depicts him (it) in such a horrific fashion that he's actually scary, not to mention skilled with weaponry and virtually unstoppable. I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley, or anywhere else for that matter! (3) Miranda Richardson was almost 41 at the time of filming, but -- man -- is she gorgeous; nuff said. Christina Ricci also looks great and so does Claire Skinner in a small role. (4) "Sleepy Hollow" lacks the goofy vibe that some of Burton's films possess; the material is presented in a respectable, generally serious manner, albeit not as ultra-serious as, say, Hammer horror.

Speaking of which, "Sleepy Hollow" strikes me as a modern Hammer film more than anything else. Perhaps that's why Burton gave Christopher Lee a cameo. Needless to say, if you love Hammer (and who doesn't?) you'll appreciate "Sleepy Hollow."

The last half hour or so is packed with action so if your attention starts wandering, don't worry, it picks up big time. The plot's a whodunit and it gets kinda convoluted so you'll need to pay attention (or rewatch it). Not that you HAVE to because "Sleepy Hollow" is such a cinematic feast you can enjoy it even if the complications of the plot lose you.

There's nothing else to say except to re-emphasize that "Sleepy Hollow" is definitely the ideal spooky flick for the autumn, or any time really.

I give it 8.5/10

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Excellent post.

I agree that Sleepy Hollow is a great film and a lot of fun to watch during the fall months. I remember going to see the film with my dad and leaving the theater being very happy with it. I have rewatched it several times over the years since then.

I would actually say the film is a triumph in every way: Direction, acting, score, cinematography, casting, and especially production design. Every pixel oozes style and atmosphere from beginning to end.

I am surprised to hear that Miranda Richardson was only 40 because frankly I think she looked at least 10 years older than that. However, Ricci never looked more beautiful than she did in this film, before or since.

Sleepy Hollow was actually one of several films that came out in 1999, one of the best years for movies of all time. '99 was also the same year that The Mummy, The Matrix, Eyes Wide Shut, Office Space, Magnolia, The Sixth Sense, Fight Club and The Insider came out. It was a pretty epic run.

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Thanks Prime. I've only seen three of those films you mentioned (Mummy, Matrix & Sixth Sense); several other notable ones IMHO would be Ride with the Devil, The Green Mile, Varsity Blues, Stigmata, Instinct and The Virgin Suicides. I also liked Pushing Tin and The Cider House Rules, with the latter doing a commendable job of presenting both sides of a controversial issue, not to mention it's a fascinating exploration of morality and the place outward & inward rules play in sometimes complex matters.

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As I'm sure you know, Eyes Wide Shut is notable for being Kubrick's last movie. It's a weird film but one everyone should see at least once.

I'm surprised to hear you never saw Fight Club. That's one of those movies that it seems like nearly everyone has seen by now. You'll definitely want to get to it when you can.

The Insider is a must-see. It's one of the best journalism movies of all time and also perhaps Michael Mann's most underrated movie. I'd put it in my MM Top 3 but you almost never hear anyone mention it.

It's interesting that you bring up Stigmata. I haven't seen it in years now but I enjoyed it a lot when I was younger and thought it was an interesting religious thriller that didn't get as much respect as it deserved.

Pushing Tin was pretty good, as was The Green Mile. Didn't care much for Varsity Blues. Instinct I remember thinking was just okay but perhaps I should revisit it. I saw The Cider House Rules but remember almost nothing about it.

Ride with the Devil has been on my list of films to see for a while now. Once it pops up on one of my streaming services I'll have to check it out.

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I guess I need to break down and see Fight Club, huh? Never heard much about The Insider but, since I love Mann's Last of the Mohicans, I should check it out some time.

In regards to Stigmata, director Rupert Wainwright knows how to make a flashy, good-looking flick. The simple-yet-profound moral at the end makes it even better and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Varsity Blues is probably my favorite sports flick of all time; it's just all-around entertaining for that genre.

Roger Ebert criticized that "Instinct" takes on too many topics or messages, but I never got this impression, nor did my wife. There are the main themes — the limitations of freedom in conventional society and the abuse of controllers (or "takers") — and there are a few subthemes, like the flaws of our prisons and mental institutions. Yet the film never confused us or gave the impression that it cut off more than it could chew. It's in the area of ideas that "Instinct" towers above most movies and the two main actors pull off the heavy material. If viewers appreciate films like "Grand Canyon" and "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" they'll probably value "Instinct."

The Cider House Rules is about more than just abortion. Some Conservatives draw a knee-jerk conclusion that it's pro-abortion, but it's more varied, balanced and deeper than that. For instance, notice what ultimately happens to a young couple that almost whimsically go to the orphanage/hospital for an abortion.

Ride with the Devil easily ranks with the best Civil War flicks of all time. It's about Southern guerrillas along the Missouri/Kansas border who eventually hook up with Quantrill's Raiders and the corresponding infamous 1863 raid on Lawrence, Kansas.

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You certainly should see Fight Club. In my experience Fincher rarely disappoints and I think Fight Club is one of his better films. The film also has some genuinely thoughtful things to say about modern society, though I've seen people interpret the film's message in different, sometimes even contradictory, ways.

I'm not quite sure what my favorite sports film of all time is, but one that comes to mind that I would definitely take over Varsity Blues is Friday Night Lights. Did you ever see it? That's a damn good movie.

Conservatives tend not to fuck around when it comes to abortion, so if Cider House Rules in any way gives off pro-abortion vibes--as I said, I saw the film but don't remember a thing about it--then it doesn't surprise me that conservatives don't like it. I tend to be anti-abortion myself, except under extreme circumstances (i.e. the mother's life is in real danger).

I'll have to check out check out Ride with the Devil. It's always interesting to see a Civil War film from the Southern perspective. Looking at the box office total, I see that the film made almost no money. It looks like it also only got a very small limited released. Considering the film cost almost $40 million to make, I wonder why the studio didn't push harder to recoup that investment.

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As you know, a movie that doesn't do well at the box office isn't always an indicator that it's bad; it could mean something interesting is going on that's too far out of the norm for mass consumption, at least at the time of its release. "Watchmen" and "The Wizard of Oz" are good examples ("Wizard" bombed when it debuted in 1939).

I'm pro-life with some obvious exceptions, like the one you point out (which is actually pro-life too since the mother's life is in danger). The Cider House Rules is not far Left or far Right; it's somewhere in the middle in its realistic reflections on moral complexities and ambiguities. While it's about more than just abortion, both sides of the debate are presented. And, although it could be argued that the movie somewhat supports the pro-choice position, it does not neglect to clearly convey the Conservative view and effectively shows how the debate has its complexities.

The issue is generally black & white, but there are some grey areas. For example, if a man rapes a woman and she gets pregnant, the life within her is not there by her choice and therefore she arguably has the right to abort that life with the blood of the child being on the head of the impregnating male, the rapist.

In the movie Homer (Tobey Maguire) argues for the Conservative position, suggesting that people should be responsible enough to control themselves BEFORE a woman is inadvertently impregnated and the ugly issue of abortion rears its head. Dr. Larch (Michael Caine) eventually remarks that he wishes the world were as idealistic as Homer sees it, but instead we're stuck with an intricately phukked up planet where people make wrong choices all the time, which have a negative domino effect.

Give credit where credit is due: A Hollywood film tries to be honest & balanced on a polarizing moral issue. Look no further than what happens to the young couple that nonchalantly opts for abortion; the film leaves little doubt that they wind up regretting their earlier decision.

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I think that is the whole point though. Crane is so intent on proving it is a hoax and is so zealous about his science that he is forced to learn that there are things in the world that are beyond a rational explanation.

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Yes Otter, your take would make a great film which I would love to watch.

That involves important themes and lays the possibility for exploring them visually and philosophically.

That requires a great artist. Good luck finding one of these.

(this is a Tim Burton movie, don't expect any art other than some gimmicky visuals and light melodramatic themes. He's one notch below a spooky carnival ride, don't expect Kubrick)

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