MovieChat Forums > Saint Seiya (2003) Discussion > Things i never understood

Things i never understood

posted 17 years ago by shiryu_no_iris
22 replies | jump to latest

Well, me again asking questions...

1. Kannon.

I don´t understand his story, was he training with Saga and competing for the gold cloth? Or nobody knew he existed?? If the latter is true, then how come he knows Saga´s attacks and is accepted as a gold saint without the training???

2. Shaka

I could never understands why he couldn´t tell Saga was evil. Yes I know Ikki asked this question. well, I never understood Shaka´s answer...

3. Replacing the goldies

Why was Saga replaced in a second and Aioros´place is still vacant after 13 years?? I mean Seiya is not worth wearing it and becoming the sagitarius saint?? And Hyoga? Why can´t he replace Camus?? They seem pretty strong to me. And if they can´t there must be another saint who can do it. It does not make sense to lack a saint or more if you are fighting a strong enemy...

4. Shun

I don´t remember reading about this or if that´s from the tv show, a friend of mine told me Shun was the first bronze saint in mastering the seventh sense during his training. So he is supposed to be stronger than a gold saint before becoming a saint himself. So he is probably the strongest saint. He does break a silver cloth(that I remember).

[–] chililili 17 years ago

1 Everyone knows about Kanon the bronzies do not know because when he was banished they weren't even born or where babies, he was training to be a goldie along with Saga but Saga thought that he was evil and locked him up.

2 He knows that Saga is evil but he ultimately chooses to follow him because Saga is a just man and a great warrior and he feels that he owes loyalty to somehting, like the pope, ultimately he sees that its better to be loyal to Athena and to die for his ideals.

3 The replacement of the goldies is always left unanswered and is one of the reasons I don't like Athena and think she is stupid

4 Shun is supposed to be the one with the strongest cosmo but still he is the weakest of the 4, beacuse of hsi fighting style and because he does not wish to kill

[–] coolguy1515 17 years ago

Is Shun really supposed to be the one with the strongest cosmo....? Even above Seiya? I cant see Kuramada putting another bronzie stronger than his masterpiece.

That said...even stronger than Ikki?

It SEEMS to go like this,

Seiya, Ikki, Shun, Shiryu, Hyoga....if not Shun swapped with Shiryu. Since....Shiryu has picked up a few new moves such as Excalibur and Rozan Hyaku Ryu Ha.

[–] shiryu_no_iris 17 years ago

1. Really? Do everybody know kannon exist?? Why did Athena (by the way, I hate her too) let Saga imprison him? and why saving Kannon from drowning but leaving him to all that suffering? She should have prevented saga to do as he pleased. Who was he to judge his brother??? And it was such a cruel punishment!! Kannon was his brother after all!!!! And Saga was supposed to be as pure a soul as it can be!!!

2. Well... the man closest to god... there's something I still don't get about him fighting for the pope. Even Milo (hot blooded as he is) realizes something is wrong...

3. I agree. I wanted seiya to become a gold saint. He looks so awsome in that armor with wings!!!!! And I won't start with Shiryu, he looks like a dream in Dohko's armor.

4. seiya is the most powerful because he is kurumada's favourite (I am not complaining, I love him when he is all rugged and bloodied and stands up and still stumbling kicks his enemies asses) but i guess shun has the strongest cosmo. It is a matter of making him really pissed off. Anyway, logic says Ikki should be the strongest of them all.

[–] refuteku 17 years ago

Well number three is because The Saggitarius cloth was in japan for 13 years, and only surfaced after those years. And i assume it takes more then one year to find a suitable wearer for it.

[–] shiryu_no_iris 17 years ago

Maybe....

But the sagitarius cloth always shows up where it is needed, in spite of being someplace else. It should have attached itself at someone worth wearing it...sooner.

[–] AFriendOfMrWhite 17 years ago

I too never understood how the Gold Saints are appointed. Nobody explained this in a completely satisfying way.

About Kanon, I think that few people knew about him. In the Poseidon chapters, we see Saga and Kanon talking, and the former says that should anything happen to him, Kanon would become the new Gold Saint. I do not know if the Pope or other Saints would be aware of this or would be under the illusion that Saga would still be the Gemini Saint.

Connecting these two subjects, my guess is that the Pope is the one that chooses who gets to be a Gold Saint - unless the Goddess is alive, flesh and blood, and takes control on the Sanctuary. That would explain why the Pope never chose anybody to replace Aiolos, and why Saori chose the new Gemini Saint so quickly.

More. More power!

[–] taco_of_tragedy 17 years ago

I think it's tough as hell to ascend to the rank of a gold saint, no matter how powerful you are or how acquainted you might be with Athena. The only reason why Kanon was able to replace Saga ASAP is because Kanon is supposed to be part-owner of the cloth, so he only took full ownership of what was rightfully his.

And then there's the whole theory that you need to be born into a cloth's constellation in order to own it. None of the gold saints were stated to be bronze saints prior to being gold saints, and since we did see a shot of the goldies wearing their cloths as kids, we can assume that they didn't ascend into their ranks, but were born into it.

"Behold, the King... the King of Kings."

[–] nuclearship 17 years ago

You all forget, that you have to be born for the Gold Cloth. Even if you kill gods you are not permitted to wear a Gold Cloth. I always thought that you star as a Bronzie, than get to the Silver level and in the end you'll get your Gold Cloth. But it isn't as easy as this. A Gold Saint is trained for only this reason after the beginning. They are born with absolute power...

[–] contreraschz 16 years ago

exactly, seiya will never be the sagitarius saint because he was born to be a bronze saint

kanon was born to be the gemini saint, just like saga

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[–] denouema 16 years ago

That's still a little odd, because Seiya's zodiac sign IS sagittarius...

[–] keltigerfight 13 years ago

Episode G is made with Kurumada's blessing too (heck the volumes all credit Kurumada alongside Okada, and in the first Kurumada all on his own writes about it that he is bringing a new story about the Gold Saints, and there's also how Okada doesn't take full credit for the script in the same volume, in fact he says the original plan was writing an all-his original story but he just didn't have the time, also references to expanding on the original story are made).

G just having minor discrepancies isn't damning enough for me since as I pointed out, even Next Dimension can have them yet no one bats an eye about it.

Well that sounds pretty canon then.

Next Dimension will always be canon, even if there was huge time altering discrepancies...that's why no one bats an eye.

[–] refuteku 12 years ago

What discrepanicies in NExt Dimension are you reffering too?

[–] Kelondir 14 years ago

1: both saga and kanon were training for the cloth, and athena could not have prevented kanons imprisonment physically since she was not even born/incarnated yet.

2: as far as i remember shaka doesn't believe in evil per se since he is a buddhist he belives that suffering must exit for there to be happines in the same way that there must be death to life, some sort of mumbo jumbo about universal balancing issues

3: well you gotta remember that the sagitarius cloth was hidden for the 13 years, so even if the grand master nominated someone, they would be left with no armour.

also i think the reason that there have been no replacements for the gold saints come down to two things. 1 the events of the anime actually happen in a very short timespan, the entire sanctuary arc only took twelve hours. and 2 according to the hades OVA not only do the gold saints posses the seventh sense, they also posses the eighth sense, perhaps that too is a requirement. or perhaps its just that seiya and his friends haven't had guard duty training, besides it the series wouldn't be able to progress if they got stuck at the sanctuary

4:shun doesn't like harming people even his enemies so he conceals his stregnth doing only the bare minimum in order to defeat his opponents

[–] mangabeertje 13 years ago

about the replacement of gold saints: don't forget Dhoko had been waiting for over a 100 years, since the last battle against Hades. There weren't any replacements for the old gold saints untill this batch (a bunch of teens and twinks), so rather it's the quick replacement of Saga that's the exception. Normally you'd only get one batch of saints per cycle... As the legend goes: when evil arises young warriors will be born, able to tear the heavens and split the ground, the protectors of Athena will gather around her...

[–] mora1687 12 years ago

Actually things go like this.

1. Apparently the Gemini Saint is always born as a twin, and it is always a good and an evil twin. This is partly to support it's myth story.

2. Shaka knows that Saga is evil, but he also knows that Saga is just, and believes in his ideals. Lets not forget that Shaka has a very negative view of the world until Athena and the Bronce Saints appear, which is when he has a change of heart. Let's say that he is one of the men who wants to see the world on fire.

3. No Saint can be replaced by other Saint just like that. You have to be born under the protection of the constellation to be able to "replace" a dead Saint. This was poorly taken care of in the anime series, though in Lost Canvas it was briefly explained. So, even if Seiya uses the Sagittarius Cloth, he is still the Saint of Pegasus.
As for the cosmos, this is taken from the "expanded universe" also known as the Taizen guide. The bronce saints cosmos is already fixed at a certain level. They can temporaly raise it, even to outclass a lower class god (Thanatos and Hypnos), but it is just a brief moment of light. In their regular state they are not that powerful, but due to their unique quality, they can raise it. At the same time a Cloth can raise it's protection level depending on the cosmos of the saint, so let's say Seiya raises his cosmos to godly level, his Pegasus cloth would reflect that. Thanks to the blood of Athena, it also changed form.

4. It is never properly explained, due to the fact that Kurumada has not finished the series yet. The most powerful saint would be a tie between Ikki and Shun. Ikki is called many times the stronger of the group by the enemies, but Shun on the other hand is/was the vessel of Hades, and carries a lot of potential. In my opinion, Shun is the strongest, both the show and manga give that idea, that he is extremely powerful, it's just that he dislikes fights.

[–] Robert0666 12 years ago

I also wondered why Dohko, never came out during the sanctuary crisis, what if everyone killed themselves there? wouldn't he regret staying in his quiet refuge?

Anyway, Saint Seiya had a lot of plot holes, the series are not about trying to figure out the logic of everything, but about the feeling it brings. If you search for logic everywhere there, you'll not be able to enjoy it.

[–] CountOroku01 12 years ago

Shaka is a jerk, there I said it. Most people in this series are jerks, Mu, Milo, Issac and a few others are of the few characters that have common sense.

Guess there really are people who act worse than 12 year olds.

[–] GTeixeira 11 years ago

I don't remember the anime, but this is explained in the manga(the comic book from which the TV series is adapted).

In there, Dohko and Mu reveal the full truth to the remaining saints(Aldebaran, Aiolia, Shaka and Milo) while Seiya fights Saga. Immediately they want to go and help Seiya but Mu forbids them, saying this is all a divine test to prove if Saori is the real Athena: If she is, her chosen ones(Seiya and co) WILL win no matter what and save her; otherwise, it just meant that Saori was not Athena.

This actually makes a lot of sense, since in mythology Athena didn't really fight as much as she gave her blessings and guided heroes; if Saori is Athena, she will keep guiding them even when near-death(which she did, just remember Shiryu's fight against Cancer Deathmask)

[–] CountOroku01 11 years ago

" Immediately they want to go and help Seiya but Mu forbids them, saying this is all a divine test to prove if Saori is the real Athena: If she is, her chosen ones(Seiya and co) WILL win no matter what and save her; otherwise, it just meant that Saori was not Athena."

Convenient plot device.

[–] rulanator 11 years ago

3. in Omega seiya gets gold armor but hes 30 years old, Saori wanted his saints to have a normal life thats one of the reasons they arent gold. But doesnt explains why Seiya the only Gold saint of the group.

[–] miguel-mejia-robles 10 years ago

Why would any of the bronze saint want to be a gold saint? They have divine clothes, *beep* gold clothes

[–] CountOroku01 7 years ago

And now we have gold divine clothes...