MovieChat Forums > Spooks (2003) Discussion > In defense of the Lucas North storyline

In defense of the Lucas North storyline

posted 9 years ago by Dunnii
14 replies | jump to latest

I have read many comments and complaints about where the writers went with Lucas North. Since I adore Richard Armitage, I'd have to admit I was a bit disturbed at first as well. It seemed out of character for him to turn so dark. After thinking and brooding on it a little, I've come to a conclusion.

I think the writers went into a pretty brilliant place with Lucas' downfall. By its very nature, spying destroys trust. Think about how often that word was spoken. I think Lucas became a allegory for organizations like the CIA and MI-5 and what they do to people. I also think that the fact he was tortured for 8 years was a nice touch and gave the character arc an even deeper meaning.

Bateman/Lucas is a liar as all spies are. He told Harry his "morality was fluid" back when he took Lucas' life and name. I think that his morality is fluid the entire time he was a spy. All of them have a fluid morality. They have to make decisions that cause pain and death. I felt like the Lucas story was exploring how this world can crush someone. John/Lucas, in the end, seems to only want the safety of a woman he loves. I'm not sure he even loves her -- I think he wants to return to a time where it was all so much simpler and she represents that. A time of innocence.

"How do I come back from this?" He asks Harry. I think it isn't just the "this" with Vaughn that he desires to come back from. It's all of it. It's being in this business. Even more interestingly, he realizes he can't and tries to run. He is a human being after all with a survival instinct.

In the end, though, the writers decide there is no coming back from this. I really think that the Lucas North story was pretty brilliant and I also think the complaints are just what the writers wanted.

Think about it -- we want our heroes to be heroes. And when they aren't, we hate it. I think this is exactly what the show wanted us to feel. Our hero turned out to be liar and a killer. What are we supposed to do with that?

And even though I wanted to defend the Lucas North story, I'm still bothered by that moment when he sets off the bomb. But even that, when I think about it, was necessary to give us a character that was truly trying to repent. All that time saving people was his penance.

Curious if others have thoughts on this as well.

[–] morn1960 9 years ago

My question would be does anyone think any security service would not have prints and a photo at first application for such a sensitive position? Harry showed just terrible judgment concerning both Lucas and Ros, who betrayed everyone at least twice, i just refuse to believe anyone would be that stupid

[–] Shimmer_Me_Timbers 9 years ago

I always thing Richard Armitage is fantastic... and Lucas North was my favorite character. I loved how they showed him trying to readjust to normal life after being in a Russian prison for years. The scene where he slept on the floor when he first got home broke my heart.

I felt like the writers just didn't know how to get him off the show and they were just so used to killing people off the show they were like meh let's try something with a crazy twist.

I would've honestly rather he just went nuts after years of psychological torture and jumped off a bridge or went rouge to go on a mission he knew he wouldn't survive to catch a bad guy that they cound't get because of all the red tape. idk something more thought out.

I agree with the person that said it's unrealistic that A. MI-5 wouldn't have pictures and every possible piece of background info on Lucas North prior to him coming in and B. John Bateman (I think that's his name) knowing that his friend was going into MI-5 and/or looking enough like him that no one would question what happened to the real Lucas North.

[–] hillrosemary 9 years ago

What an interesting post! I didn't dislike Lucas's departure storyline as much as many people did, and I think the writers were only halfway wrong. I could always imagine the character taking his own life because of the accumulated stress and pressure he had been through with his arrest and imprisonment, the break-up of his marriage and its other consequences etc. I did, however, find their route to that suicide storyline a little difficult to believe. Lucas had always been portrayed as a rather sensitive and withdrawn individual with his only apparent flaw being a weakness for picking the wrong woman (and I always felt that that wouldn't have happened anyway had he been played by someone other than Richard Armitage!) It just didn't seem credible to me that he would have turned out to be someone with a personality so diametrically opposed to the Lucas we'd known for two series.

Had it been left to me I would have preferred to have the Russians put their hooks into him again and somehow put him in a corner - by blackmail or by threatening someone close to him - which he couldn't get out of without betraying Harry. I could quite easily imagine Lucas putting an end to his own life because he was caught between two impossible alternatives and could see no other honourable way out. And that wouldn't have necessitated the rather abrupt and unlikely personality transplant that he had to undergo in series 9.

Just a thought! :)

[–] Shimmer_Me_Timbers 9 years ago

I completely agree.

I could see him either taking his own life or sacrificing himself (after being put into an impossible situation like you said).

[–] Lady Cole 9 years ago

I still don't like it. And aesthetically speaking, I did notice that his tattoos started "migrating" a bit for some reason, especially the ones on his arms. Almost like the producers couldn't be arsed to care about continuity anymore. Season 9 wasn't satisfying on the whole for me, it became too much of a soap opera with the whole Lucas (sorry, but I refuse to call him John!)/Maya and Ruth/Harry storylines.

We are Mods! We are Mods! We are, we are, we are Mods!

[–] Shimmer_Me_Timbers 9 years ago

I didn't finish the series because I was so disappointed by it

[–] sutj526 9 years ago

The complaint, at least for me, is that the entire Bateman/Lucas character is really two very different people with different motivations. And there seems to be a lack of cohesion between the two sides (Series/Season 7-8 & 9).

First we're told that Lucas North has spent 8 years in a Russian prison being tortured into giving up secrets. He had to change sides to survive. Lucas' entire first series is extremely evident of this. And the fallout PTSD was very well done. But then in his last series, we find out he's not actually Lucas North. Okay, I can buy that. But then they really need to explain why the Russians didn't know. How come in the 8 years of torture, Bateman/Lucas never once said "oh, no wait, I'm not Lucas"? Lucas came back broken, but somehow managed to keep that secret.

I actually liked both versions of Lucas North/Bateman. I just wish the production had planned the Lucas a bit better.

[–] n-j-toner 9 years ago

I do understand your doubt that he wouldn't have spilled his identity under torture, but I offer another perspective.

last night I rewatched the final episode of series 3 of Game of Thrones, in which Theon, having been tortured for most of the series without seemingly proper questioning, begs to be killed to make it stop. Having reached that point, the torturer tells him that he wants Theon alive, but will call Theon 'Reek' from now on. Theon refuses and takes a beating, then caves and accepts the name.

The torturer took him to the point where death is the only option until the torturer offered him an alternative in line with the torturers own needs. His actual name was meaningless and never questioned until changed, it is only his utility that the torturer was interested in. In Theon's case this is a plan which will unfold, in Lucas's case what he knew of MI-5, but their names are of no importance.

Dum Spiro Spero

[–] Shimmer_Me_Timbers 9 years ago

idk if you can compare the two situations...

In GOT Ramsay is taking delight in the torture of Theon, stripping away his identity for the sole purpose of turning him into Reek. Theon gives in and when he assumes the identity of Reek Theon ceases to exist.

I didn't see the Russians taking delight in torturing Lucas - it struck me as "all in a days work to get what we need". They weren't trying to strip him of his identity like Ramsay did to Theon/Reek, they were trying to Lucas down to the point where he would give them everything they wanted.

It makes no sense that Lucas wouldn't disclose his actual name and/or life story which would've resulted in one of two things - either they would've killed him for not being Lucas North or they would hold it over him to get him to do their bidding once he returned home.

The writers tried to justify it saying that during the torture he assumed the identity fully and had amnesia in regards to his actual life story.

The basis of my problem with the whole storyline is that he assumed the identity of a man/friend who was already in the beginning stages of joining MI-5. So how the hell would NO ONE know that Bateman wasn't actually Lucas North. (When you want to work for the government there is extensive background checks, finger printing, and they would have at least one form of photo identification)

[–] eatomson 9 years ago

Here's a nasty thought: I don't know how long he was an agent before he was captured by the Russians, but what if MI-5 knew that he wasn't actually Lucas North, but needed a fall-guy, someone who knew nothing much, that they could safely let the Russians have? Maybe even feed him some false information to trustingly give to the Russians? They wouldn't care if he made it back or not.

I feel kind of sorry for Bateman: he kills people to get his 'dream job' with MI-5, gets caught by the Russians and does 8 years in a Russian prison (I can't help but feel he would have been better off if he had gone to London, confessed to being the bomber and got a good lawyer). Maybe he told the Russians that they had the wrong guy, and they laughed in his face? He's finally released, and pretty much the first person he runs into is the old crook who got him into trouble in the first place. If it weren't for bad luck, he'd have no luck at all.

[–] Shimmer_Me_Timbers 9 years ago

Here's a nasty thought: I don't know how long he was an agent before he was captured by the Russians, but what if MI-5 knew that he wasn't actually Lucas North, but needed a fall-guy, someone who knew nothing much, that they could safely let the Russians have? Maybe even feed him some false information to trustingly give to the Russians? They wouldn't care if he made it back or not.

I would've reluctantly accepted that scenario... but if they didn't care if he made it back Harry would've never made the deal to free him. Nor would he put him back in action.

[–] Lady Cole 9 years ago

I can think of one major thing that really made the whole storyline a bit on the "HUH????" side-Maya. Apparently this woman was the love of his life. Yet when he comes back from Russia he immediately sets out trying to get Elizabeta back. He even told her he thought about her pretty much every single day while in prison. Then in Series 8, he's with the bleached blond with one of the absolute worst fake American accents I have ever heard. So why the heck does it take a suitcase from Vaughn, some pictures and a computer to suddenly remind him of this great love? Was he repressing? Did he not want to remember ANYTHING from that time of his life?

Strange, Lucas seemed to be the only regular character during Richard's tenure on the show who actually had a sex life. Too bad the women he was with kind of...sucked, to put it bluntly.

We are Mods! We are Mods! We are, we are, we are Mods!

[–] Shimmer_Me_Timbers 9 years ago

They tried to explain that off by saying he didn't remember anything from his old life until he got the suitcase from Vaughn.

[–] ms moss 7 years ago

I know this is almost two years later, but I have to agree--I just finished Season 9 and thought the story was brilliant. For me, it made sense for the writers to go this way. They already had one section chief retire, two died heroically, so why not have one go rogue? Having one of our heroes turn traitor is one of the most shocking things they could do.

As for what some people call a personality shift--I didn't see it that way. For most of the season, he seemed like a caged animal. He acted out of desperation to give Vaughn what he wanted because he was afraid of losing the comfortable life he had. Then when episode 7 happens and he's compromised well--all bets are off. The noble thing would be for him to turn himself in but he's in survival mode. He doesn't want to do the noble thing--he just does whatever it takes for him to get out of this mess. I think that's why he goes after the Albany file after Vaughn's death--it's his and Maya's ticket out of London. But I never stopped seeing Lucas. This was just a Lucas whose whole world had been shattered. At that point, why try to be noble and heroic when everyone knows you're not?

I just found his story to be very tragic.