Shurayukihime vs. Kill Bill

I'm thinking that he used the Shogun Assassin title instead of Lone Wolf and Cub because of his friendship with the Wu Tang Clan. RZA used a sample from it on one of their early albums. "His brain was infected by devils ..." I think it was the 36 chambers album but it could have been liquid swords. It's been awhile since I listened to either.

Not at all. Tarrantino has yet to do a film of his own with a totally original plotline, and "homage" is just a gentlemanly way of saying "rip-off" in cases like these. I really hated Kill Bill One and I saw if AFTER the second one. He has to make a film that is his own and just gives a nod to the types of films he loved when growing up before he convinces me he is anything more than a maker of pastiches. I think his last great film was "Jackie Brown." With a script version of the book "Rum Punch" by the great Elmore Leonard, it had just the right touch of 70s blaxplotiation and intelligent dialogue to make it real. I really loved the Lady Snowblood pictures as much for their Japanese history lesson as anything else.

For my money, I have to geaux with Lady Snowblood because it's less popular than the Kill Bill. Less people liking it and mucking it all up for the rest of us.

I find it amazing that so many rip-offs use the word "homage" as though that word makes it all right. Tarrantino had run out of ideas and does these "homages" routinely now and no amount of inside film jokes, TV references and the like will make it anything more. "Jackie Brown" as far as I am concerned is the last original thing Tarrantino did. After doing his "Elmore Leonard" turn, he is just recycling.

Lady Snowblood by far. Tarantino is an excellent editor with fine style, but this earns much more credit for actually being the original. I also just enjoy the fact that this movie is quite beautifully done for its time and resources. True, it's not sleek and glossy like Kill Bill, but I enjoy it more. Plus, Meiko Kaji is just lovely. One of the first great film female badasses.

I'm not wise, just uniquely stupid.

Horrible editing? Crap dialogue? Where?

Volatile plot- A plot that is readily vaporizable at a relatively low temperature?

tarantino is unoriginal, creating from his own influences

Kill Bill was really awful. Comparing Kill Bill to anything truly Japanese is like comparing a commercial of apple juice to a real apple. So after reading so many comments comparing Kill Bill to this movie I'm really hesitating whether I should waste time with it.

I dont consider myself to be a QT Fan. I didnt particularly like Kill Bill I or II. I LIKED reservoir dogs and pulp fiction because it was good writing (as far as violent crime movies go-- I think the name 'pulp fiction' pretty much says, "chalk this up as cheap entertainment"). As far as direction goes, hes nothin great ("OMFG! a perspective camera shot from the trunk of a car? Thats... Thats... .... pretty much all hes got"). I see him as a MUCH more driven movie fan, than I do a director. That explains his compulsive "borrowing"-- theres a HELL of a lot of it in ALL his movies. I'll be surprised if there ever comes a day I see a QT movie that doesnt look at least a LITTLE familiar, haha...

Just saw LSB today. It was good. The camera work wasnt bad like everyone says. It had some style even. I think the fact that it doesnt fall into the "blinding speed editing of non-stop action!" made it that much more dynamic than Kill Bill-- I need to see some "slow" before I can appreciate the "fast".

(Also, I dont see how in the world Tarantino based his arterial effects from this movie at ALL! I was expecting RIDICULOUS amounts of blood, and I would have been disappointed too, except that it looked really good! Blood color pardoned, because nobody got that right till the mid to late 80's anyways...)

A couple people here have said that they thought the characters in Kill Bill were more developed than Shurayukihime. I'm on the fence for this one. Lady Snow Blood had more character, in a "I know where shes coming from" sort of way (Think about Kobue Takemura, throwing her baskets into the sea, so her father wouldnt know they were broke). Kill Bill had more character, but in a "I know what these characters are like" sort of way-- a "I know the Bride is a scared of no one, tough as nails, kick-ass bitch!" sort of way. It all depends on which sort of movie you like best. Personally, I like the LSB way. I dont think you need to cram things down the viewer's throat... we're not as dumb as they like to think.



As far as the two stories go (and somewhere near here, there be spoilers... watch out now!), I have to give the win to Shurayukihime-- and not just because I appreciate old stuff (I try to keep that in check).

In Kill Bill, we all pretty much knew The Bride was going to "Kill Bill". We didnt know EXACTLEY why she got betrayed. We didnt know HOW he was going to "Kill Bill"-- but I think every person in the theatre knew that her baby wasnt REALLY dead!

For those reasons, I label this the "pulp fiction" or kung-fu, or samurai, or japanese cinema, or whatever you wanna refer to it as. I always call them "Bad Kung-Fu Movies" (not based on the actual quality of the movie... its just how I refer to them.). Kill Bill was funny at times. Cool most of the time. and bloody ALL the time. When the movie was over, I didnt care where the Bride went. The blood had stopped spraying, and Bill was dead.

Depth of story wasnt an issue-- I think the fact that QT regularly wrote new scenes and added them to the script says something about the foundations of the screenplay.



In my opinion, Shurayukihime accomplished more by its use of simplicity. It didnt try to be clever with it's cinematography. It conveyed exactley what it needed to, and it wasnt BORING to look at-- There are two moments in the movie that I love, both using the same camera move. The camera is focused on Yuki, then it zooms in and over her shoulder... both times I was like, "What the hell...?? What are they getting at?" just as they rack the camera's focus and dissolve to another scene. Theres something to be said for an almost cliche move.

The bottom line is this. Shurayutihime didnt have great dialogue-- and the action wasnt as compact or shot as well. That I will concede. However, I lay my case at the feet of the viewers. There was little to no point to Kill Bill aside from exploitation of violent movies-- which is great. Its fun to watch, if you've got time to burn.

But I'd trade 50 of those movies for two classic scenes from this movie that struck a chord with me:

When Yuki discovers the woman (cant recall the name) has hung herself rather than be murdered (dont tell me you didnt get chills when she stared at you hanging there), she realizes that 20 years of preparation has been stolen from her. That she has failed at her life's ambition. She gets worked up and in a fit of rage breaks all her training, and splits the corpse in half (although the effect was so crumby, it can break the serious mood if you let it).

We see what happens when Yuki fails. They didnt cram it down our throats, but the message is recieved. I started to wonder what would happen when she succeeds? I never ONCE wondered what would happen at the end of Kill Bill... just didnt care enough.

So later on, when we see Yuki complete her task, and she is walking through the snow bleeding, we see what happens when she succeeds. She permits a bitter Kobue to stab her in the side. Like,"Yeah, go ahead. I'm done here anyway...".

Then when we think she has died (that scream was heartbreaking!), the sun rises, and she picks her face out of the snow. Its like, "OH! I GET IT!". Now that Yuki has fullfilled her Mother's wish she can move to her own life. The sun rise purged her, of her Mother's spirit. The movie had a point aside from blood, great!




The only thing I can think to compare that moment to is (and I'm ashamed to be bringing up a trendy director, because it almost goes against my point) in "The Darjeeling Limited. When the brother's all throw their father's luggage to the ground to catch their train. One of them even says, "Dad's baggage isnt going to make it...". After that, they are okay as brothers again.


I hate when people say they love movies, but then miss the only TRUELY important message in the movie. Its disappointing.


Go see Shurayukihime, The Darjeeling Limited, and if your in the mood for a Lark, Why not rent Kill Bill I & II. At the very least its a good collection of 'head nods' to movie history.

~TW