It just doesn't add up...
The Allies would have been in a tizzy if they had found out, at least, if their respective populations had found out (as I'm sure the Allied leaders did know).
If I was Hitler, I would have sent telegrams to the fricking New York Times and the London Times!
Any clue as to why he didn't?
Katyn was a propaganda windfall for the Nazis and they did actively publicise it, hoping to split the Soviet Union from the western allies.
Could Britain and the US have put the alliance with the Soviet Union at risk in 1943??
I recall seeing a Nazi poster pitched at the French, which read:
"If the Allies win, Katyn everywhere!"
Coming from the Nazis, who were up to their necks in massacres, criticising the Societs is a bit rich.
"If the Soviets win" (it was for the French people).
Coming from the Nazis, who were up to their necks in massacres, criticising the Societs is a bit rich.
Another looks at the lives of the camp commandant and his functionaries. His uniform, white and cleanly pressed, is among the artifacts. A German typewriter marked ''Pol. Ab.'' -- referring to the Nazi political section of the concentration camp -- is also displayed, reformatted for Cyrillic letters, a sign of the quick transformation of the SS infrastructure after the war.
There's "A Bit Rich" in the story of the "Western Allies" as well that nearly matches any misconduct by the "Eastern Allies." Likely up to 1 million German POWs died in captivity after WWII, due to starvation and exposure, due to the direct orders of Eisenhower. Source: "Other Losses" by Canadian writer James Bacque. True, Stephen Ambrose and seven other historians examined the book soon after its publication, and came to the conclusion that it was inaccurate and the product of conspiracy theory. But other historians, including the former senior historian of the U.S. Army Center of Military History, Colonel Ernest F. Fisher, who was involved in the 1945 investigations into the allegations of misconduct by U.S. troops in Germany (he wrote the forward to "Other Losses"), argue that the claims are accurate. Luckily, history is not subject to "voting." Eventually the truth comes out, and the truth shall set you free.
share"Other Losses" is totally misguided, possibly on purpose. The "other losses" were prisoners like the Hitlerjugend kids of the Volkssturm and POW women being let go home early. Many prisoners were "other losses" released early because they were necessary to the Allied-supervised reconstruction of west Germany.
sharethey executed for this about 20 German generals in their captivity anyway (they hanged them publicily, then left the bodies to rot on the gallows).
A public execution like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtgJ4FjYu18
shareIN wartime, populations generally believe their own propoganda, and DON'T believe the other side's
If you were and Englishman or American would YOU believe a story like that coming from the Nazis?
"Whiskey for my men! And beer for my horses!"
T. Keith
German propoganda about Katyn didn't get through to the general public (British, US and free Polish) because allied propoganda supported the Soviet view - that the Germans did it.
However, German revelations about Katyn resulted in the Soviets breaking off diplomatic relations with the Polish government in exile.
They broke off relations because the Polish Government-in-Exile simply asked for an independent Red Cross investigation of the massacre. It took a long time for the Russians to confess: In 1989 Soviet scholars finally revealed that Joseph Stalin had indeed ordered the massacre, and in 1990 Mikhail Gorbachev admitted that the NKVD had executed the Poles and confirmed two other burial sites (Mednoye and Piatykhatky), similar to Katyn.
shareThe Soviets broke off diplomatic relations with the government in exile because Sikorski asked the International Red Cross for an independent investigation. The Soviets strenuously objected, a case of "doth protest too much."
shareIN wartime, populations generally believe their own propoganda, and DON'T believe the other side's
If you were and Englishman or American would YOU believe a story like that coming from the Nazis?
[deleted]
If you want a deeper (and more graphic) dive into Katyn', rent and watch Polish director Andrzej Wajda's movie titled quite simply "Katyn'."
shareThanks for that. I will.
I dont suppose I will be any the wiser afterwards, but it's essential to view all sides.
My lasting view is that Stalin did this, & it is a stain on the Russian People who deny the facts, they who gave more lives to the defeat of the Nazis than any other country.
The world owes a major debt to Russia.....not the Cold War Propaganda machine & idiots like McCarthy.....The result has been mayhem globally, the genocide in recent years in Africa,the Congo, Rwanda etc can be directly attributed to the folly of post war (WWII) tension. The US & THEM mindset.
Thanks for that. I will.
I dont suppose I will be any the wiser afterwards, but it's essential to view all sides.
My lasting view is that Stalin did this, & it is a stain on the Russian People who deny the facts, they who gave more lives to the defeat of the Nazis than any other country.
The world owes a major debt to Russia.....not the Cold War Propaganda machine & idiots like McCarthy.....The result has been mayhem globally, the genocide in recent years in Africa,the Congo, Rwanda etc can be directly attributed to the folly of post war (WWII) tension. The US & THEM mindset.
Agreed, and to add to the poignancy of the film, note that Wajda's father Captain Jacub Wajda was among the victims, as a Polish officer.
shareThe question is more to the point is why did the Allies keep it a secret...
shareWhat exactly did we(UK & US) know about Katyn, I am sure Churchill knew all about what happened at Katyn, I recall a documentary, Station X, about Bletchley Park, and I am sure the codebreakers found out about this, giving Churchill the headache of whether to reveal Katyn, knowing he could have compromised Bletchley Park by revealing it.
I always wondered about this, Hitler could have had a field day with this, but I guess at the time what we did not know could not harm us, whatever the West knew, as bad as it was, needed to keep it under wraps, end of the day our enemies enemy is our friend
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Less than 28% of Western European university grads today know that Germany and the Soviet Union were allied at the beginning of WWII
shareThere is a statue honoring the thousands of Polish Army officers slaughtered by Joseph Stalin at Exchange Place on the Jersey City, N.J. side of the Hudson River, right across from lower Manhattan.
The statue is of an officer with a bayonet piercing his body, a very moving and profound work, indeed.
Who knows, maybe President Barack H. Obama will take the time to visit and lay a wreath of commemoration at the foot of the statue the next time he is in New York City, attending a political fund raiser at Sarah Jessica Parker's posh Manhattan apartment or possibly paying tribute to his good and close friend, that noted champion of racial brotherhood and tolerance in America, the Rev. Al Sharpton?
Yes,it doesn't make sense why the Nazi's didn't publicise the incident more widely: I mean, the basis of the film is that the British are trying to hide any mention of it in secret German communications - secret for god's sake! Should have just let lord haw has mention it on the radio.
shareThey didn't. They publicised it.
The massacre happened April 1940
The Germans discovered it about March 1943. They brought Polish journalists to the site and publicised it. However, this was 1943. There was no internet, and war was on. Also, the claims were coming from the Nazis. Did the public in Britain or the USA believe them?
The USSR recaptured the area Oct 1943, covered up the graves and announced that the Germans had done it.
Churchill says in his biography that he thought the Germans were probably telling the truth about it.
In the movie they say that there are many Poles helping the Allies (including helping supply the USSR) and therefore that the information shouldn't be released, because those Poles might stop helping, or might even try to sabotage cargo ships heading to Russia.