MovieChat Forums > Idioterne (1998) Discussion > Just a few idea of how I saw this movie....

Just a few idea of how I saw this movie...

posted 18 years ago by laurasbubble
12 replies | jump to latest

I certainly don't claim to be any kind of know all about movies in any way shape or form. But I know what I like and I know what I don't like...
The Idiots was a movie I saw on channel four's banned season, but for many reasons I loved it.
The idea behind it all, be free and just let go, reverse yourself free from the restraints and so on... It's kind of idealistic. And when I say this forget the orgy's and the humiliation, and just think about human animalistic feelings. I don't mean let's all "spaz out" all of the time and live in someones uncles house together, but the idea of freeing yourself for a little time to get back to your raw self works for me.
And I think, this movie is a million times better than the mainstream crap that's vomited out from week to week.
Maybe if more people took the time to think about this idea they would, just possibly learn a new idea, a new concept that could maybe make them think about things other than "what's for my dinner".
Anyway, please post a reply, even if you think I'm the skid mark on the toilet bowl of society. Would be nice to get a response.
Take care. L x x

I am insane, and you are my insanity.

[–] highland1177 18 years ago

nice comment ...
this film clearly is not one for the masses and the end is a bit of a letdown, i think, but the ideas behind von triers works always encourage the viewers to think and reflect about themselves and thats what art is all about isn't it ;-)
greetings, the austrian highlander

[–] laurasbubble 18 years ago

I once went to a lecture entitled "what is art" and as diverse as the answers to that question can be, you're right, we all reflect and respond to it differently. Some people think about it, others dismiss it. Makes us intersting as humans, don't you think?
I think in a society such as ours, where our apperance and outer image is so important to the masses, it's important to keep close other ideas and almost "think simple" to get away from it all.
Hope I'm making sense.
Take care, L x

I am insane, and you are my insanity.

[–] highland1177 18 years ago

That's a little vicious circle....
The "idiots" want to break up their "outer image" to society with their behaviour... they want to leave behind the rules of a "normal" life.....but that "simpler" idea in itself becomes a new "dogma" (like the production formula of van trier ) and that ultimatley destroys the little community in the end.
In the end every revolution eats its children and the conformity of society will catch you, but a little phase of self-reflection surley can't hurt from time to time ;-)
and yes you are right: the variety of thoughts in art, religion, politics, science and so on....that's what makes the humans the most interesting "species" on this planet.

greetings, the austrian highlander

[–] tokenblackdude 18 years ago

I Think the movie is trying to point out how futile and unrealistic it is to believe in an utopian society. The "idiots" are trying to break away from the normal society and be "free", but when they are put under pressure, when they are asked to "be idiots" in their home community or asked to stick up for each other, they choose the easy way out.

It's easy to be an idealist, when it's cost-free, but only Karen who has nothing to lose, is able to take the "game" to it's conclusion and prove that the others are just playing rebels.

[–] kafe15 18 years ago

Hmmm, I'd say that the movie is about breaking free of boundaries set by human society - that's the easy reading, anyway. In fact, it's more about the exact opposite: how the people that in the movie try to do this, are all so very hypocritical - they're all willing to take all the benefits of their "idiocy", but when it comes to truly breaking away, sacrificing everything you have, none of them are willing to pay the price. Not counting Karen, that is.
I'd say that the final scenes, the gang bang scene and the Karen and family scene, are far from letdowns. They make it ever so more clear what the movie is really about: the fact, that even though all these people have "realized" that society is nonsensical, and that there's no deeper meaning, this is just a load of bogus. Every single one of them has something to lose, and when faced with the possible loss, they all (again, except Karen, but her case is special) shy away.
Karen, to me, is the one who has the most to lose. She's the one faced with bottomless pit of despair over the loss of her child - the total meaningslessness of a childs death. She is held up by her family, but is also held firm in place by the cultural boundaries that dictate her place, her actions and her feelings. In order to move on, to give her mourning the due place, to not ruin the rest of her life, she has to break free from the family, the only thing she has left. Faced with that, she manages to play the idiot, to break her chains. But not because being an idiot is great, because it will allow her to not care about anything - because it's the only way to avoid the fall into the complete despair.
If anything, this movie does NOT applaud the actions of the "idiots" it portrays.

Fake

[–] jamiedoneill 18 years ago

And I would say it's about society's ways of dealing with "spazzes" - disabled people, mentally defective people, eccentrics, etc. which in supposedly liberal western socialistic democracies is still patronising, ignorant and intolerant (take the woman who considers buying a house then changes her mind when she finds out the "idiots" will be living nearby after having said she is cool with them.

Then it turns on the pretend "idiots" themselves and asks if they are hypocrites.

Stunning film and totally original.

[–] OliverWinkles 18 years ago

on the other hand most people in the film react very positively (or as well as can be expected) to the behaviour of the idioterne. the bikers are the clear example of this - sure they would probably have beaten the *beep* out of jeppe (and probably stoffer) if they had known, but who could have blamed them? I don't think von trier is criticising society as a whole.

[–] jamiedoneill 18 years ago

Right. Just the parts of society that are hypocritical or don't question their prejudices. It's a good point about the bikers.

[–] Matt_Freake 18 years ago

Hi I would just like to say your post was spot on and i saw the movie in the same way you did, i would be nice to see more intelligent posts like this, BTW what is/are your favoriye movies?

Matt

[–] Rugby5513 18 years ago

This film is so overrated. The idea, the directing, and the acting are all over rated. The only good scene was at the end of the film. The film would have been better if it concentrated on that idea instead of the hypocracy of idealists. Like the original poster stated, there are a lot more ways to find oneself than spassing out. It was the directors attempt to make a movie on what he thought was a creative idea which it wasn't.
So many people comment on how well the actors make this believable. Try spassing out. Acting is about being and understanding the mind of the character, about their beingness, it is the easiest thing to portray because they are portraying characters that don't understand themselves.

[–] laurasbubble 18 years ago

Hi there...

Sorry, I've only just read your message... I actually work as a support worker for adults who have learning disabilities in the UK, and althought no expert, I see people with disabilities every day and work very close with them. The reaction from the public varies, from being totally ignored to over the top people talking to the people I support BECAUSE they have a disability. It's a fine line...

My favorite movies are so varied, from Crowe's Almost Famous (Untitled), to Requiem For A Dream, to Sin City... All for many different reasons. I'd certainly put The Idiots up there too.

Feel free to email me, or something... [email protected]

Take care, L x x x

I am insane, and you are my insanity.
What kind of beer?

[–] who_took_ID_edifer 18 years ago

Karen's grieving process is understandable, but in the end when she goes back to her family, she doesnt face her saddness, she just continues to bury it, which many deem as useless as you arent dealing with issues. But everyone else in the group wasnt running away from anything so you see them as abusers i guess, I dont know. I just watched Brown Bunny and now this so its all with the big bang in the end.

Oh an another thing I dont get why when Jeppe and Josephine were making out they continued to act like spasses. . . ?

Movie buff, ya right who watches TV anymore