Everybody talks about pornography in this... idiotic film....come on you people.... there's a one second penetration and a 'ding-dong' erected... half way actually, that lasts for another second..... i' mean , watch 9-songs... new film by Winterbottom and then we can talk about pornography in a feature film.... Jesus... everybody got shy lately!
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Well when I first saw it I had no idea it would have such scenes in it and therefore I was a bit chocked. I think that's why people has been so hung up on that part of the movie. If you go and see a feature film you just don't expect something like that, and that's why people remember that scene and talks about it. That's what I think.
shareAmericans must be chocked by this... They have a long way to go to reach our european freedom of speech...
share"Americans must be chocked by this... They have a long way to go to reach our european freedom of speech..."
Hahahahahahahahaha
" "Americans must be chocked by this... They have a long way to go to reach our european freedom of speech..."
Hahahahahahahahaha"
Hahahahahahahahaha
You're laughing for some reason, but he's correct
every european guy i have met is disturbingly perverted and mysogonistic. i dont see why we always talk about europeans being more liberated and therefore better, they are much more corrupt and *beep* up in the head because of their "free love" lifestyle as is this guy obviously.
shareOh, come on, you're jealous! European... perverted... please! You're really stupid!
shareEuropeans don't get offended by public breast feeding. Americans are hypocrites. You can't see a nipple in public, but have the world's largest porn industry.
sharethat has nothing to do with freedom of speech. And every European journalist union and organization will tell you that no European country has the level of US freedom of speech.
That is why if a reporter can be sued and shut down in either the US or Europe, say if his article was published in both places, he is alwasy sued in the Europe -- because it is easier to gag a reporter in Europe. Ironically especially in western Europe, eg France or the UK where you can actually.
And there are plenty of European jurisdiction where it is illegal to breast feed in public view. Saying their arent means that you as a European don't know your own region! Adn I suppose I could paint a brad brush about Europeans based on our ignorance of the world too by pointing out that in almost all of the US breastfeeding is exempt from indecency laws and protected?
As far as an erect penis taking this out of US mpaa rating, that is EXACTLY the same bright line as Eruope! This film has an 18 (x, no one under 18) rating in Norway, the UK, Spain, . It has an 18 rating in S. Korea, Canada and Australia. It was banned in Ireland.
Are you saying Ireland is not Eruope. Are you saying Norway is not?
It's actually an R18+ rating in Australia, not just "an 18 rating". Please get your facts right, although I would highly appreciate it if you kept us out of your little dogfight. Von Trier's a genius, you're a pussy. Film student here - can't argue with me.
share"Film student here - can't argue with me. " Regardless of what you could ever say before this sentence, you prove you are a complete retard. Good job. This is why everyone thinks "film students" are immeasurably pretentious.
shareVon Trier's a genius, you're a pussy. Film student here - can't argue with me.
Please click on 'reply' at the post you're responding to. Thanks.share
And there are plenty of European jurisdiction where it is illegal to breast feed in public view. Saying their arent means that you as a European don't know your own region!
Actually, it was American influence that has destroyed morality in Europe. Take rap "culture" for instance.
shareReally? In Europe, you can't go to jail for saying the holocaust didn't happen? They just didn't pass that law? Bro... America's freedom of speech may not be perfect but it's the best in the world. You can't go to jail for saying things in America.
share"You can't go to jail for saying things in America."
Unless you're "saying things" about Bush.
if that were true, 75% of the population would have been locked up, you frigging idiot.
shareIt is a federal crime to verbally threaten the President of the US. You do go to jail for that.
Just one example.
Ask Lil' Kim why she went to jail too...
America is not free. If you believe that, you are very poor.
AND, it is prohibited to glorify Nazis in the countries like Austria and Germany, because they DID IT. They did the Holocaust, they perpetrated the WW II and are responsible for the death of millions, therefore it is only fair to not permit that to happen again. If you have a different opinion, you are crazy.
AND, give back the country to the Indians, it is theirs and you stole it from them by genocide!
I haven't signed in to IMDB in a long time, but I just had to respond to this post, which is comparing European culture and American culture, then takes America to task for stealing the lands of the natives.
You do realize that the attitudes which caused the Americans to be so dismissive of local people come directly from their European heritage, don't you? It is a little unfair to compare the history of the united states, to that of all of europe, but did you forget the conquests of the Empire of England, and the way the Indians (the real ones) were treated by them? What about North Africa? What about, the well known history of Europeans (not just those in Germany) having a viscous hatred of the jews? Or, the way the conquistadors dealt with the local people in south America? Your use of the American treatment of the natives to compare disfavorably to America is just silly...
That being said, I prefer European culture in general. It is more secular and progressive. America is following you there, though.. give it a few generations. And when we arrive, we will do it with flair!
uh, you do realize that the original settlers who "stole" the new world from the natives were from europe, right?
...and when you think about, for just about any country to exist, there had to have been a war between the native inhabitants and the invaders... all land has been "stolen" at one point or another throughout history.
Dear dontjuststareatiteatit. Europe isn't just one country. We don't all have the same laws. And no, America's freedom of speech is not the best in the world. The Benelux countries, Scandinavia and so forth by far exceeds the US of A.
shareAll true about the Benelux, but we have this extremely stupid thing called "politically correct" and it sucks donkey balls.
In my house, all things glow
My walls are a living light show
- Scott "Wino" Weinrich -
Hardly. I live in the Benelux and one of my friends has gone to jail for expressing his opinion.
ONLY the US has true freedom of speech from a legal point of view, regardless of how much lobby groups try to limit it...
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Europe isn't a country. In almost every European country you can't go in jail for your opinions. But that's not the problem honestly, nor the main point about freedom of speech.
I'm Italian. I can say whatever I prefer without fearing Jail, but however in my country there isn't freedom of speech: even if I can't be apprehended, I can't speak about some arguments in TV just cause no one is going to broadcast me. TVs can't decide what I can say but they can decide who can listen.
The saddest thing is you can think about a sentence like "America's freedom of speech may not be perfect but it's the best in the world" without thinking "Wait, am I thinking that just cause I am American/filoamerican or I really know the law and the situation of every other country?"
There is a lot of political control in most American's media and there are a lot of problems with nude/adult contents (I can't really understand that, but it's probably about your culture). The situation isn't that bad... it's kinda in the west europe average (way better then Italy, under Denmark... I'd rank it similar to Spain for example)
The only message that I liked on here... Thanks for your words.
{...} Mentulam caco {...} My blog: http://jsaaopinionpersonal.com/
Europe isn't a country, silly.
sharelast time i checked (in my CANADIAN philosophy class in the land of CANADA) i learnt that there are 4 freedoms o' speech that in fact aren't permitted in the US.
just thought i'd give my neighbours-to-the-south a heads-up on that in case you took your assumed freedoms too rampantly to heart and found yourself facing charges for:
1) perjury
2) libel
3) incitement to war
4) ***not telling you the fourth! attend some schoolin' of yer own & find out!***
Those aren't freedoms of speech. I think everyone misunderstands the concept.
You have the freedom to say/write whatever you want...however...-I- have the freedom to tell you to shut the *beep* up or tell you that you are wrong.
Perjury is if you swear on the bible (in court) that you won't lie and then you lie your ass off and they find out. That has little to do with freedom of speech and more to do with court laws.
Libel is if you publish something that paints someone/something in an undeserved negative image. That's like if I publish in the newspaper that you have sex with farm animals. Whether or not it's true, it gives you a negative image and you have the power to call me out on my *beep* That would be me abusing my freedom of speech and you using your freedom of speech.
Incitement is actually in other countries as well. Incitement is like if I convinced someone to kill someone else. Even the UK which arrested some men for inciting terrorism on internet forums. Pretty much the same thing. If someone on the radio keeps talking about how we should wage war on jews, and then a gang kills a jewish person because of it....shouldn't that person also be held accountable?
How can you compare the USA (or "America" as some insist on calling it; South and central America don't share all your laws) with all of Europe? It annoys me when people from the US think of Europe as a single entity, as a country. It's not comparable. What people are imprissoned for in Slovenia has just as much to do with Norwegian law as Human Rights abuses in Venezuela (or any other American country) has to do with your constitution.
shareIt's equally annoying when almost everyone in the world thinks of the USA as one single entity. It's comparable in size to Europe, has just as many different states as Europe does countries (all with individual laws) and is just as diverse in everything except native languages. I'd argue it's actually more diverse in some respects.
As far as freedom of speech goes, the USA is the only country which actually has it in its legislation. I'm British, and in the last year alone there have been several high-profile cases in the UK where people have been sent to jail for - get this - things they said on Twitter. Not even "dangerous" things, just tasteless jokes and sentiments which the authorities didn't appreciate. That is not something that would happen in a country with freedom of speech, no matter which way you look at it, and certainly wouldn't happen in the USA.
While we're talking about adult content in movies, you know that virtually all European countries have stricter regulations on who can see what films, right? The MPAA's ratings aren't legally enforceable unlike the BBFC or any other Western Europe classification system. It's legal for a person of any age to watch an R-rated movie, although cinemas will require them to have a guardian with them. And the USA has never banned a film, as far as I know. The worst that can happen is that it'll be refused an MPAA rating, which means it won't get shown in most cinemas, but can still legally be sold. In the UK at least, it's illegal to distribute a film which hasn't been rated by the BBFC, and if the BBFC bans it (which they still do, from time to time), it becomes illegal to own. Again, this would not happen in a truly free country.
So yeah, parts of the US may be pretty backward-thinking in some areas, but it's ridiculous to imply that European countries are inherently better when a lot of evidence points to the contrary.
These bastards!
Do you really beieve what you have just said?!!
Ask the people who have been locked up for "saying things" and then are accused of being terroists simply because they have a dark skin and dare to be critcal of US behaviour in the world.
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Patriot Act. PATRIOT ACT! But it turns out you CAN out a covert CIA operative now in the press & get away with it. You'll have to pay a fine...
shareHmmm.... Actually, Europe isn't one country with the same laws everywhere. In my country you can also say whatever you want and we also cherish the freedom of speech.
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He says, and then Lars Von Trier gets arrested and interrogated for hours over a simple joke... in FRANCE. That would have never happened in America. Some Americans would have been offended, but he would not have been banned and he would not have been arrested.
Europe has the biggest double standard when it comes to free speech. They use the media's hyper-coverage of America to hide their own worse faults through a constant offensive. I've heard a million people call Americans racist, but only in Europe have I ever actually seen blatant, horrible racism.
I think I was shocked by Stoffers' ding-dong. Not that I was intimidated exactly, but you can see why he was pretty okay with them filming it huh? Personally I wasn't really shocked by anything else. The penetration was a little excessive for me, but mostly because I think the woman he was doing was pretty...eugh... Josephine wasn't bad though, and she was naked too. So... awesome, Penetration = Forgiven!
share"Everybody talks about pornography in this"
Lol, whats the point of this post. You must have realized you'd just start another debate about the porn. One second, one minute or the whole feature... wouldn't make a difference. It's still pornography.
And the few boo's and hisses there's been can in no way generalize viewers as 'shy' considering the success the movie has had.
not just 9 songs but also SHORTBUS has explicit sex scenes.
i like how u called the phallus a ding-dong
how about these substitutes:
John Thomas
Wife's Best Friend
Big Sam and the twins
6th Digit
Winning Eleven
Third Leg
8th Day
I haven't seen the movie but I just have to answer this. I heard a radio-show with a Swedish rocker who have this film as his favourite and he said this to the listeners:
The scenes about the penises and when Stoffer is trying to pee are a metaphore about how we need to let our inner idiot out and try to see that we are all idiots and need to recognice that and stop being judgemental about the handicaped or other people out there.
As you know I have not seen the movie, maybe I should do that to get back at this debate. But I guess that the rocker is right. And it is sure a pity that you can show off all of the female body in USA and not the Male body all naked. I guess that we need to step back and look at pornography and nudity at a whole other level today since we are so chock-exposed with female skin and so un-exposed to male skin it is really strange to have a debate about this at all.
Just my two €-cents!
europe is more liberated and free than america and various other places, gay marriage isnt even legal in usa, u've never had a woman or black president and you people allow kids to carry guns! which is just insane to other countries, yes in england, we have so many rights, even the people who come over here and bad mouth our country, wanna bomb us and live on our benifits have freedom of speech and rights (although they shouldnt) no countries perfect, but if your looking at this film like its pornography then you need to open your mind up a little bit more and realise that its a brilliantly acted film that includes only a couple of seconds of nakedness, which doesnt marr the film in anyway!
freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose- janis joplin
What i tried to say in my earlier post is that such movie if it was made in america would have a ton of problems to be released. One fine example pointed out above is the male nudity. I love americans, i have americans friends and i thing they're a really friendly people. It's your rating board and some conservative ideias that i don't agree that much. That's why they think we are perverts... We just don't have limits between two consensual adults.
share"a metaphore about how we need to let our inner idiot out and try to see that we are all idiots and need to recognice that"
Pretty much the point of the whole movie. That and the way that even the people who are think they are doing that, still aren't letting themselves be free and can not completely accept themselves in the end.
let's just call it a penis and be done with it...
In my house, all things glow
My walls are a living light show
- Scott "Wino" Weinrich -
I though that scene was beautiful and natural, comparable to :::::::MINOR SPOILERS (OF THE MOVIE KEN PARK::::::) the very last scene in Ken Park. It represented innocence partially.
_____________________
--- BE TROLL 2!!! ---
www.myspace.com/anzycpethian
you're right. It's not pornography.
Pornography's purpose is to turn someone on - the purpose of the gang bang scene in this film is definately not to turn someone on.
As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster - Henry Hill
The gang-bang was metaphorical of the Catholic Church's persecution of Jews, and the international outrage of the Pope never apologizing for the Church's role in the Holocaust.
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