Why do people not like this more?
this movie is seriously poetic.
shareIt isn't poetic at all to those who see Joan as receiving messages from G-d and pursuing a holy quest. It doesn't matter how unrealistic their belief is, or how open the film is to Joan's honest faith and courage, any other explanation than a heavenly quest by a super/brainy/religious/gutsy/sane teen is heresy to them.
Nonetheless, I wonder how they would feel if it was a sibling who had died and was twisted beyond all recognition to suit religious myth? Would they feel that their real-life sister had been taken away from them twice, that the proper eulogy would have been respecting the unique but all too human indivdual who made life interesting for others?
The sad joke here is that nearly everyone in the forum respects Joan enough to want to commemorate her life. The difference between them is some want to honor the unique aspects of an ordinary human in an ordinary world, while others demand a G-d-driven saint and G-d supporting one deeply-flawed aristocratic cousin in his battle with another at the expense of countless dead.
I don't see how this film negates the idea of Joan receiving messages from God at all. It shows her doubting herself, thats all.
shareYou're right. Besson leaves it an open question. However, he shows the very real extreme teenager that laughed at a cleric in the Poitiers' hearing, bragged about her prowess, demanded that her banner be held high at the king's coronation, chased a prostitute with a sword, told the men that they had lost previous fights because they did not pray enough, promised to kill all the English if they did not leave, and wailed bitterly at injuries on both sides. The faithful much prefer an imaginary placid martyr or a serene saint on a horse to the real Joan.
shareoh, i see
shareI'm just curious, have you read a lot about Joan? I can't ever find very much information online and would love to know where to find info about her specifically.
shareI'm just curious, have you read a lot about Joan?
Yes, I now do research for a living and was the director of a large public library when I researched her story, utilizing interlibrary loan to read academic and medical analyses of her. The problem is that she is a venerated religious heroine and the facts of her real life have consistently been buried under fatuous myths created a few decades after her death.
During her life, she had very few supporters, and was utilized primarily as a morale booster. The problem was she was headstrong, cruel to those she didn't see as pious, made outrageous claims, was constantly getting injured, and only had a month of success in the field.
If you research her online, you really have to dig to find anything useful, because, when dealing with religious myth consecrated by religious "historians," the passionate adherents far outnumber the honest and dispassionate. It is far easier to let those who want to imagine a brave dead teenagers was representing G-d in a heavenly fight, than to spit in the wind of anger over "despoiling" her legacy.
The best overall documentary picture is from a French academic with no special knowledge of medieval history or research who founded a museum to honor her (in other words, not an unbiased source). The best dispassionate single source I know of is The Trial of Joan of Arc, by Daniel Hobbins, published by Harvard, but it isn't biography so much as an analysis of the trial while she was alive. Otherwise, there is no real substitute for doing research in articles and monographs that are long buried. Nobody, including me, is very interested in showing a brave person like Joan who died for her beliefs as a teenager, had clay feet. She was remarkable anyway you look at her.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151137/board/thread/99280982?d=99413417#99413417 share
Thank you so much!
shareThe sad joke here is that nearly everyone in the forum respects Joan enough to want to commemorate her life.
What's so sad about it? It's truly an accomplishment to be noted don't you think?
An illiterate peasant girl becomes the vanguard for an army and winning battle after battle. Did she have divine knowledge or was she given some divine instructions? Who knows? The movie seems to suggest that she had some sort of psychic ability...maybe she did.
I don't think it's sad. Woman don't have very many strong role models or strong historical figures to fall back on--don't take Joan away from us lol.
The story is alot of things but sad isn't one of them. The sad part is that the church railroaded her for their own agenda--this time bought and paid for by the English--and looked for excuses to execute her, finally had to make one up and got rid of her.
I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar. share
What's so sad about it? It's truly an accomplishment to be noted don't you think?
What is sad is that most here respect Joan, including me, but fight with each other over how she MUST be seen. Those like me who see a historical figure in the context of other historical figures have to fend off those who see received mythology as sacred truth and view anything that denies her sainthood as heresy. She has to be above human arrogance, human mistakes, insanity, or guilt of any kind.
It would be less sad if we could all focus on her guts and intelligence in undisputed territory (e.g. ability to affect events as an un-lettered peasant in a highly politicized and cutthroat male-dominated world). Unfortunately, like Jesus, whatever she was in reality is erased in wars over what people want her to be. share