Before replying to the meat of your post, I'll begin on what I've additionally gained from reflecting on the movie. The more I reflect, the more holes I find.
First, the whole episode at the beginning with Satan hiring Arnie's security firm to protect him was a complete farce. Satan told Arnie in his apartment that he hired him to protect his in flesh body. But it's obvious that bullets at worst temporarily stun him depending on the firepower. For the most part, bullets seemed to be nothing more than a nuisance like some pesky mosquitoes. So the whole business of hiring him to protect him was a sham since he was MORE capable and equipped to protect himself than Arnie and Pollack.
Next, was when Arnie and Robin were running down the alley to escape Satan and were confronted with a suddenly evil detective (played by CCH Pounder) who had the child molesting police security guard at the hospital in tow. She orders him to come out with his hands up, then tells her sidekick that she wants just the girl and to kill Jericho. At what point did CCH Pounder get clued in on everything and turn into one of Satan's minions? At every point before that scene she seemed like a normal detective, trying to piece together the whole mystery of Thomas Aquinas and was following the same leads Arnie and Kevin Pollack were tracking down. That scene made absolutely no sense to me. Am I missing something?
Also the command center that appears out of nowhere behind the clothing store where Arnie loads up on firepower before the finale was sort of cheesy and unexplained. He even had a cohort telling him the cops were looking for him while he was looking up on a computer the location of the Satanic temple where Christine was held. What was THAT all about? They obviously wanted some way for Arnie to load up on high caliber weapons and a way to convey how Arnie figured out the location of Christine, but the vehicle the writers used to provide them seemed awkward and clumsy.
And finally, I couldn't figure out exactly whether the writers intended Thomas Aquinas to represent the REAL Thomas Aquinas that we know from history as the Catholic theologian that is respected by many to be one of the greatest philosophers of all time (he would definitely make my top five list) or named that priest Thomas Aquinas in tribute to the great Thomas Aquinas. I wonder because it was repeated often that he was alive for 1000 years, whereas the real Aquinas was born in the 13th century so that's hardly 1000 years. The movie made him and the group of homicidal minded priests that have lived for 1000 years to be part of a masonic order in a former sub-herald of the Vatican knights which turned out to be the knights of the Holy See. This secret group of knights, whose corpses just disappear when they are killed, are alive for a millennium for what reason? For the sole purpose of ensuring that the end of days doesn't occur by killing Satan's bride? The REAL Aquinas was part of nothing of the sort and would likely view the Masons as fools if not heretics. He was a part of the Dominican Order, but that has nothing to do with the knights of the Holy See, and he would never join and engage in the barbarism of the crusading Teutonic Knights of the time.
And one more plot hole I just thought of. I thought it was mentioned somewhere that the killing the girl would also bring about the wrath of God where fire would rain from the heavens and spell the end of mankind, which was a big reason Jericho tried to keep her alive from the knights. So why does Satan need to mate with the bride at all? Why not just kill her or if that's against the rules, have her killed since that was a way to bring about the End of Days just as much as mating with her at the ritualistic hour would.
Okay then, on to your post.
I'm also toying with an idea on why Satan would have limited powers on earth.
But first, I think I ought to get into the premise of my book...
In short form, Satan isn't chasing after a Christian this time (to which the church says, "Good! Maybe they'll kill each other off!), it's not new years and there is no guarantee that the world will end after sex (even though leaving out the latter kind of leaves out the suspense).
What's so scary about it?
Well, wouldn't you freak out if a human you saved turned out to be the devil incarnate and he started stalking you and messing with your head...among other things?
So far so good. Sounds like a workable plot.
~)~
Anyway, the idea is that during the time of the "heavenly war" (if you want to call it that), Yahweh made a mandate about Satan copulating with humans (and the latter totally missed it because he was in a towering rage about being thrown down to hell). The other gods found out about the mandate through some gossipy angels and they wanted to protect their female worshipers too...so over the course of a millennia, the mandate turned into a book of law that covers Christians, Pagans and even Atheists. Which means that if Satan wants to do a mortal, he has to play fair.
Hm. Interesting concept. You mention "other gods", which makes me think that it's premises is not based on Christian doctrine, but a Pagan or Neo-Pagan one? If this is the case, then you would need to explain the concept of God is in detail, since the average reader is familiar with Christianity there's not the need for as much backgrounding in a storyline. But the average individual knows very little about Paganism, or the many flavors of Neo-Paganism. You would need to explain the polytheistic aspect and how it is consistent with the Christian understanding of God and Satan.
At first I liked the idea, but then it became a little inane. After all, what fun is a satanic thriller if the Prince of Darkness has to play by the rules? :D
I think the first quote that I provided from you above has potential. But the background information in the second quote needs some polishing to be coherent. Following a specific religious doctrine might help provide some structure if you don't care to invent one. Just so you know, I'm an atheist but I have some theological background after studying the various religions of the world before coming to my conclusion. So I'm not at all trying to push you toward one doctrine or another. Just trying to insure consistency and credibility to your storyline.
"But, but, but, CLINTON!!!"
~Any reich-winger when confronted with their miserable failures
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JamiesFanGirl
16 years ago
I'm glad I have you here to help me think things through. :)
I thought about what you said (which is a feat in itself, since I'm 50-60% tired) and it took a few minutes to get there, but I think I caught on.
The trouble I have with your reasoning (and it's a shame that I do), is that Pagans don't follow doctrine--or at least Witches don't and that's what Sable is. The idea of establishing doctrine for a faith that does not (and never will) have one seems like a difficult task to me and I know that I would get flak for portraying Witches incorrectly--especially since I am one (in a roundabout sort of way).
Nevertheless, if you have ideas on how to work around this, I'd be happy to hear them. I think my email address is in my profile, and if it's not, send me a private message and I'll give it to you.
Have a good weekend!
P.S.: I blocked the troll before the admins started keeping track of this thread...but it's nice that they're keeping it clean for the rest of us.
This year, I am thankful that IMDb has great administrators. </unintentional tush kissing>
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You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
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eYeDEF
16 years ago
DrYelle,
Sorry for the lag in getting back to you. You're right that Paganism has no doctrine. What I really had in mind was Gnosticism, since you mentioned "other gods" along with other rules implied by Christian theology. There was definitely a Gnostic doctrine of some sort even though not all of it has been recovered, and what we know of Gnosticism itself is fascinating as the antithesis of Christine doctrine in the early centuries after Christ and the intellectual wars they fought over hearts and minds until the Roman Catholic church emerged with its various orders of priests aligned with them as the dominant doctrine of the day and wiped most of what we know about the Gnostics off the face of the earth.
"But, but, but, CLINTON!!!"
~Any reich-winger when confronted with their miserable failures
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JamiesFanGirl
16 years ago
I'm lost.
Good thing that book got tossed onto the back burner while you were busy with RL, because otherwise, I would've had to have said, "That was absolutely no help whatsoever!" ;)
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You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
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eYeDEF
16 years ago
How are you lost?
"But, but, but, CLINTON!!!"
~Any reich-winger when confronted with their miserable failures
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JamiesFanGirl
16 years ago
How the whole doctrine thing fits into my book. That's where I'm lost.
And can we continue this chat in private? I think we've veered off topic, somewhat.
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You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
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Crevan1986
16 years ago
Next, was when Arnie and Robin were running down the alley to escape Satan and were confronted with a suddenly evil detective (played by CCH Pounder) who had the child molesting police security guard at the hospital in tow. She orders him to come out with his hands up, then tells her sidekick that she wants just the girl and to kill Jericho. At what point did CCH Pounder get clued in on everything and turn into one of Satan's minions? At every point before that scene she seemed like a normal detective, trying to piece together the whole mystery of Thomas Aquinas and was following the same leads Arnie and Kevin Pollack were tracking down. That scene made absolutely no sense to me. Am I missing something?
That would be the director trying to throw a suspenseful twist into the movie. At first, you believe the detective is there to help Arnie and Robin, but then uh oh, she's now in Satan's pocket.
Also the command center that appears out of nowhere behind the clothing store where Arnie loads up on firepower before the finale was sort of cheesy and unexplained. He even had a cohort telling him the cops were looking for him while he was looking up on a computer the location of the Satanic temple where Christine was held. What was THAT all about? They obviously wanted some way for Arnie to load up on high caliber weapons and a way to convey how Arnie figured out the location of Christine, but the vehicle the writers used to provide them seemed awkward and clumsy.
I took that to be the headquarters of the security firm Arnie and Kevin worked for, and the older associate letting him know that the police were after him would be his boss.
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Dream_Demon
16 years ago
Next, was when Arnie and Robin were running down the alley to escape Satan and were confronted with a suddenly evil detective (played by CCH Pounder) who had the child molesting police security guard at the hospital in tow. She orders him to come out with his hands up, then tells her sidekick that she wants just the girl and to kill Jericho. At what point did CCH Pounder get clued in on everything and turn into one of Satan's minions? At every point before that scene she seemed like a normal detective, trying to piece together the whole mystery of Thomas Aquinas and was following the same leads Arnie and Kevin Pollack were tracking down. That scene made absolutely no sense to me. Am I missing something? [/i}
When was it mentioned that the police officer (the "security guard" at the hospital) was a child molester?
[i] Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger
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Crevan1986
16 years ago
When was it mentioned that the police officer (the "security guard" at the hospital) was a child molester?
When Satan visits the hospital to punish Thomas.
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chuffster-1
15 years ago
I got one-why does Jericho wear a bullet proof vest if all he wants to do is die?When we first see him,he puts a gun to his temple,preparing to commit suicide.
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SanForZeke
15 years ago
^ I have no idea. Perhaps his job was the only thing he didn't want to screw up, if a person wanted him to protect him, he was not going out easily.
One thing I always wondered about was the church scene, where Satan beats down the bald priest, but leaves him alive, and then proceeds to kill the other order members in the room. Never understood why he cared about them, or if it was some message in this scene. "Follow the purpose, and you're safe?" Since the priest comes to find Arnie all shackled up the next day.
_____________________________________
"Hello, God. It is I.. Doctor Frasier Crane."
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