The people she ate were down there
sharei honestly didn't really understand the film...what evidence do you have to back up this assertion? i felt that the film left it unclear as to whether he was crazy or she actually ate meat/people. frankly, the former seems more feasible and supported by the film.
shareMy take is that after he begins to believe the girl really cares for him and he stops looking for the bodies, his becomes paranoid again. In other words, he can't accept that something isn't wrong and will keep looking, because he's crazy!!
sharesounds right to me. dude was brought up in a household where he had to pretend for years that "nothing was wrong". and I suspect the story of hs house burning down when he was 10 was when the murder happened, so he's been in this denied existence for probably 15 years?
I think the fact that he saw a head that was really a large squash in that pan and the green tupperware with a butternut squash in it, besides the fact leaving a body unrefrigerated would stink to high heaven also point to the meat eating/her sleeping with random guys not being real.
The little girl plot twist ... no idea.
I assume the little girl is just some little girl he saw when he was developing photos, and because he is a nutjob he fabricated the whole story of her being missing, when in fact there was no picture of her on the milk carton
shareOBVIOUSLY!! its antoher way for him to spy on ppl
sharelost love
kids are only put on milk cartons when the situation is so desperate that it is actually pretty hopeless.
just his way to try and find meaning/solidity in everyday things because his own life has become so overleaded with conflicting emotions he turns to something he recognises and probably knew when he was younger.
why does he watch the woman through binoculars in reverse ... to distance himself from the emotions that are welling up in him. The same goes for atributing love to a milk carton, it isn't inside of him anymore and it becomes a plain and ordinary thing. The little girl signifies how hopeless his situation as become.
What happens when he moves the carpet away at the end? What happened with the little girl? i watched it with the sound real low and could hardly hear it because people were sleeping in the room.
shareWhile he was suspecting her of hiding dead bodies in her apartment, he began to do the same thing. They even began to stink, whereas if Gloria had hidden dead bodies in her apartment there would have been an odor, but obviously there wasn't.
I think this was his psychosis taking over. He was projecting onto her what he feared within himself, which was the thought of becoming a monster. Unfortunately, what happens is the brother (Sal) kills Vic and then kills himself by throwing himself down the stairs and in the guilt of it Francis is left to believe that it's all somehow his fault. Probably leftover from his early childhood. The dad probably killed the mother and the two boys were left with the guilt of it and the older one (Sal) went crazy his own way by impersonating the mother, and the younger one (Francis) went crazy in his own way as well. I don't believe Gloria was killing or eating people, it was merely a suggestion, and the cross-references in the script are there to fool the audience.
i remember watching this and just as he pulls back the rug to look under i turned it off because i couldn't stomach what might mbe down there...what was down there?
My teenage ansgt has a body count
OK, just watched this again today. I see the points of him being crazy and those that think she really ate meat/people... Now the little girl, I see how you think it gives him purpose to find meaning in everyday life, but, why did the "Jones" guy run out of the photo shop? You know, the guy that brought the pictures of her. Thats one part that has me thinking, maybe him and that lady was on some shadyness. But then again, Im gonna watch this a few more times before I make up my mind, lol..
The little girl was really kidnapped I think, when he is tossed out of the drug store, he does not see the driver in the van with the girl (the evil Mr. Jones)but we do.
This may seem dumb, but the woman in the drug store with the girl is stealing loads of pills (to kill the poor little girl?) in her purse, she grabs a small something to buy just at the counter.
I didn't really think there was any question as to whether or not she's a cannibal. He's clearly hallucinating while watching her through the windows. Unless you suspect she was killing men in her apartment without a drop of blood and dragging them into a hole in the floor when she hears someone knocking at her door. It seemed like the whole scene at the party was proof enough that he was crazy. I mean, she didn't know he was coming over, how could she have hidden the head that was in the pot so quickly?
As for Sal, I guess I thought he was the father. From the talk they had in the bathroom, they discussed the mother being killed and about the father as well, although you could make an assumption that the dad was crazy and guilt ridden, and would talk about himself in the 3rd person, refusing to accept that he killed his wife. But I guess it could be the brother too. He just looked too old to be a brother.
What the hell? I mean, am I the only one that thought the ending insinuated that Gloria was Satan and the gate in the floor was the door to hell? Why on earth would there be so much emphasis on religion, god, Jesus etc. all throughout the film? I figured this would be one of the more popular theories.
I think if my presumptions are incorrect, and the director actually intended for us to believe that a girl like Gloria would actually make such desperate attempts to progress the relationship with a guy like Francis, or even start a relationship, then it was a very irresponsible move on his part. It would NEVER happen.
Gloria was Satan. She served as a temptation to lure Francis away from his faith and family. Everything that he saw was a fabrication created to intensify the relationship, pull him away from god, and closer to Satan.
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Interesting theory, I like yours best. More fun for me. *giggles*
shareFrancis thinks that God hates him and has made him mad. Perhaps he's right? Religion drives most people mad, after a fashion. Being sensitive and introverted - as well as a devout believer - Francis is more vulnerable than most.
In either event, this movie provides a feast for God-haters everywhere. ( Yum, yum! )
Well maybe not that she was Satan, but certainly that she was hiding some kind of sin. The movie was all about hidden sin, guilt and shame. What he found at the end doesn't matter. He found a secret thing...whatever it was...that proved the girl wasn't who she said she was. And the writer most certainly meant for us to believe the girl wanted to be with Francis. She saw in him all the same things that were true in her. She was committing some terrible act that she had to hide. She asks Francis if he's ashamed of sleeping with her. He said he was. They are simpatico. She says that she feels she's known him all her life, despite how quiet and guarded he is. Francis' judgement of her is classic projection.
Now about the little girl....
His innocence couldn't be saved. Not by God, his family, or the woman he loved. That's what the little girl represents...innocence, beaten and stolen. Francis couldn't save her either.
This movie was so dark. Very disturbing stuff. I really liked it. LOL
I watched it last night also and I was thinking, maybe she was one of those 'PETA fanatics', remember the way she talked about the 'cruelty' of the 'fat man' eating poor defenseless animals? Well, maybe she only killed meat-eating meanie guys and chopped them up?!
But it was odd, w/ Francis seeing her cut some meat, that coulda been a leg of lamb, but we're not sure what we see! Human leg? And then, we see her eating some raw meat or something, but not by Francis through his binoculars! So, I'm not sure WHAT's real or what - if he was going crazy, schizo and hallucinating - or if there really were dead bodies underneath her heating grate? But WHAT ABOUT THE SMELL? And why was she seen behind the curtains moving around, apparently chopping/killing someone with swinging arm motions?
I started to think that he HAD seen her killing 2 men - and that HE wasn't crazy, but SHE was!
As for the "mother", Sal, wasn't he/she the older brother? Or the step-dad? That was weird, cos Susan Tyrell is a real woman - I hate when they show a woamn pretending to be a man, becuase they know they can't really trick you like in 'The Crying Game' anymore!
And the little girl - and that weird Jones guy who got his film developed, he had probably kidnapped the girl - with the other woman - and he noticed Francis was noticing him! That could have been more plot to get into, if they'd made this film longer & more involved! All in all, I liked it!
Whew, I'm tired now! ;)
"The Film which you are about to see is an
account of a tragedy that befell a group of 5 youths."
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It really was an odd film - guess we'll all be discussing this one for awhile!
shareYes, that's the point. Art is most often used to provoke thought, and I just think that the people on here who get into heated debates over what really happened at the end of the movie would do well to remember that. There are a million and two different scenarios - anything from Gloria was Satan, to she was a cannibal who hide the bodies in the heating grate/thing, to the fact that he was just insane.
There will never be any definete answer - for there to be a black and white solution to the film would defeat it's entire purpose.
I think you are dead on it! OMG that you so very much! I appreciate your explanation. I was lost!
Gloria was the devil. In the movie Rosemary's Baby, Mia Farrow eats raw meat when she's carrying the devil's baby. And then he sees Gloria with his head on a silver platter. This is an old cliche. In other words the devil is serving him his head on a silver platter. At the end Gloria looks down at the grate just as Francis notices it. She has a grin all the time, as if she's enjoying his pain. I also believe that Francis killed his parents and allowed Sal to believe that he was the guilty party. Francis is living hell on earth as a result of this sin.
Actually, I think he is already in hell. The people coughing on the bus -- anybody who is really religious knows that coughing represents your body trying to eject demons.
No, I just checkd to see if she was smiling; she wasnt. She didnt even express any emotion, she was just watching him as he moved the carpet off the grate.
shareexactly, which means the grate might not have even existed or held anything. is gloria really satan? or is she an angel, trying to save him from his own hell he cannot escape?? seems like the hell he exists in and succumbs to is all his mind, his projections. not anything to do with what she does. but i guess it's hard to believe someone so lovely and kind would want someone as crazy as he is, without some weird twisted motive?
sharewow--yes..Gloria was SAtan....i remember thinking, "Why is she calling him and wanting to see him again after he went psycho with a cleaver at her dinner party??? ""then she adds, "I love YOU"...shouldnt a restraining order be the proper move at this point?????......yes, i think Gloria was symbolic.... i understood initially to offer him coffee as a friendly gesture....but to pursue a sexual relationship with an odd duck like that when u look like a runway model and have a cool apartment and alot of interesting friends???? yes, i think Gloria is Satan..im convinced now.
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More like Gloria represented salvation, from a hell Francis created and, in the end, finally descended to. (I mean he didn't only create the hell--it was kind of his life to begin with.) But Gloria as satan? Her as a too-good-to-be-true angel, trying to save him, seems the more obvious theory. Because yeah, there is no way she'd go for him in any reality. And to call him up, after he came over waving a cleaver?
Seems like the more voyueristic he was--the further he was--from Gloria, the closer he was to hell. Gloria's seizures were triggered when he started talking crazy--posessed by his demons. But, a life like that would make anyone crazy.
Some really good posts here. I went from believing that Gloria was the devil to her being and angel or something. I think that's what it realy boils down to, the viewer must decide for themselves whether they think Gloria was salvation or damnation. Was she trying to help Francis or trick him into some kind of hell.
I would suggest the seizures were more of a defense mechanism like another poster said. Maybe Gloria WAS posessed and whenever Francis got close to the truth and confronted her she had "seizures", as if her demon were being cast out by Fracis. Francis could have defeated her.
We already knew that Francis had problems. He was an introvert, shy, reclusive, weird, had speech impediment and a birth mark on his face (the mark of the devil) so I don't think the director meant for the things Francis saw Gloria doin while spying were to imply that he was "seeing things". I think those really happened. Not to mean that Gloria was a cannible and really killed a few people, but that what Francis saw was something meant for him to see. Gloria was something else and was showing Francis these things. She's either an angel or a demon.
The part that bothers me is during the last scene when he notices the gate under the rug. As soon as I saw that I thought it was like the gate of hell. Another poster pointed out that Gloria was grinning when she saw that Francis noticed it. I thought that too until I went back and watched again and freeze framed that shot. It's really quick and it is the last shot of Gloria that we see, however she is NOT grinning (that would have made the movie to easy to figure out). She just looks down at what Francis is looking at with little or no expression really. I think that these final shots are the keys to interpreting the film. The final shot of Gloria bothered me for days after and I was torn between thinking that the little expression that was on her face was anxiousness. Like if the camera stayed on her for a second more we would have seen her smile. That was just the "feeling" I got, and I think it was intentional. No way to prove it though. Brilliant film, nearly flawless. Amazing directing and writing. Why Oh why hasn't this guy done anything else??
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I have only seen it once, but here are some observations to chew on (pun intended):
- "Mother" was brother that caused the fire that killed parents when he was 10, wasn't "too old" if you recall the photo he was much older with the crutch.
- Every time he challenged Gloria (girlfriend), she coincidentally went into a siezure...her "defense" mechanism to prevent him from continuing to challenge her.
- The mysterious ending is up for interpretation, which makes it somewhat interesting and edgy.
- The little girl was clearly under the abduction of the man Jones and his accomlice: the last scene when he was looking at Francis in his rearview mirror.
- Not a religious person, I found the overtones of God and Jesus to be interesting...he went to confession, girlfriend was sceptical about it, God let him "see" the truth of the world through his various lens' (photography, binoculars).
hmmm, the seizure as "defense mechanism" seems a little off. but i think the seizure thing is an interesting thing to discuss or think about. because whenever he started spewing his insane theories about her, she seized up. she went somewhere else, had this intense body reaction. for instance, if she wasn't satan and instead represented salvation or whatever, maybe she couldn't exist in that reality somehow. she couldn't exist in his hell. her seizures, if anything, brought him out of his insanity a little. she was almost more like the virgin mary, jesus, whatever... for example, when he was talking about her being willing to 'give her life for a dead cow' (the vegetarian argument that triggered her first seizure)-- wasn't that a parallel to the conversation he had with her friends at dinner, when he said 'jesus died for the sins of the unbelievers', and the friend questioned why jesus would do that? he questioned her in the same way. why would she give her life for an animal? seems like he was going further from 'salvation' when he stayed away from her. didn't really seem like she was the devil.
sharenot too old
remember in the family picture his brother was much older than him
we can't stop here, this is bat country.
OMG -- didnt you see the photo? The older brother Sal, had a crutch, even as a child. It WAS his brother. Not his mother. Not his father, not a step mother. A brother. I can't believe so many of you are blogging about that.
I also think that may be why Francis was so weirded out when men paid attention to "mom". He didnt want their secret to be discovered. And yes, Sal and Francis are both screwed up by their weird and tragic upbringing.
And did anyone else notice that both brothers had names that could be sexually ambiguous? I wonder what if anything, that meant. Sal? Francis?
So I didn't get Gloria as Satan but it might work. Sal was clearly the brother. Something happened and their dad went crazy and killed their mom then himself and burned the house to try and cover it up. Sal couldn't cope and "became" his mother. He was older but missing a leg and heavy drug and alcohol use will make someone age quicker as well. Francis always had heavy guilt over his parents death and brothers illness. I think he cracked and I agree that he was projecting onto Gloria. The theory of Gloria as temptress intrigues me and I'll have to watch the film again. The girl was not missing and Jones had nothing to do with it. Dude got freaked out by Francis and left. The pictures were of his family on vacation. Oh and no one has mentioned this but when Sal was praying to St. Anthony at the end he was speaking of Francis loss of faith, same with the burning picture of Christ.
I thought Francis would burn down the apartment and kill himself mirroring his father's death in the process but I think I like the cliffhanger ending better.
Stir the pot and don't give definate answers...
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