When he put it in the vcr and all those S&M scenes were playing, (later on he said it was James Woods on the tape). That's what I thought. Was it not James Woods being whipped by the dominatrix? It turned out James Woods was gay right? So if he was gay, what on earth was he doing participating in that S&M scenario?
This was what confused me about this whole film.
Thanks to anyone who can clarify.
No, it wasn't James Woods in the tapes. When Travolta said he was on the tapes, it was just a tactic to try and get Woods to confess. The fact that Woods flatly denied it shows that he wasn't in the tapes.
shareI have to go back and watch those dominatrix scenes again.
Thanks much
Oh, if that's your bag then there's waaaaaay better material available. In high resolution colour, too...
sharelol. No, not my bag. I just wanted to see if it was or was not James Woods. I haven't even gone back to look yet.
Definitely not my bag. But each to his own. lol
Indeed.
shareI just wanted to see if it was or was not James Woods. I haven't even gone back to look yet.
Most people here don't really understand the scenes relating to the tape. The James Woods character was gay and so obviously he wasn't in the tape with the woman. The John Travolta character at first tried to bluff him by suggesting that he was in the tape with the woman officer. At first James Woods was afraid on hearing about a tape because he thought he and his gay lover had been caught on some tape. But when it became clear Travolta was referring to the sex tape of the general's daughter, he knew that he couldn't possibly be in it, and so he was able to give Travolta a sarcastic reply denying it.
shareMoore was never concerned about a gay sex tape.
When Brenner brought up the tapes he was concerned because he didn't want Lizzie's memory and reputation to be ruined.
When he gets accused of being in the sex tapes he is amused and says, "I don't think so" because he knows for sure he never had sex of any kind with Lizzie. Because he's gay. Also because he would never want to betray her trust, as he said earlier in the movie.
We never see who the men are in the tapes because they are masked. It doesn't really matter because she had sex with everyone. Clearly since Kent stole the tapes, he might be one of the men on them.
Happy birthday to the ground!
The problem with your interpretation is that the gay angle of the Moore character then became irrelevant to the film - which was about the murder of the general's daughter. Brenner was doing the investigation and obviously Elizabeth's tape could not have been kept secret (and everyone knew about her activities anyway including her father). When Brenner first mentioned the tape, Brenner did not even know that she had tapes. He was concerned about ruining the reputation of the guy he cooked dinner for.
shareI just re-watched the movie last night for the millionth time. When he mentioned the tapes to Moore, Brenner had already been to the basement, saw the tapes, and had the tapes stolen by Kent.
The men in the tapes were masked so Brenner didn't know who they were. Brenner was trying psych Moore out by saying he saw him in the tapes. At this point Brenner is trying to suss out a motive. He thinks Moore is the killer because they found Moore's boot prints at the crime scene. Moore laughs, and says "I don't think so." Moore knew he wasn't in the tapes because he was gay and his relationship with Lizzie wasn't sexual. He was her friends, therapist, and mentor.
One of the themes of the movie is to expose how the military has a culture of secrets.
Moore couldn't come right out and tell Brenner about being gay because this was in the time of don't ask, don't tell. He and his partner could have been court-martialed just for being gay, and he didn't really know Brenner's stance on the issue.
If he could have come out and said he was gay from the beginning then it would have provided a different perspective on their relationship earlier on in the investigation. Brenner eventually understands it all after Moore is killed. Earlier on the fact that Moore is keeping this secret allows him to stay a suspect longer and creates another layer of mystery.
When Moore speaks to Brenner in his kitchen about the tapes, he is primarily concerned about Lizzie's reputation. There is also the audio tape recording that Lizzie made to the General. At that point he might not know exactly which tape Brenner is talking about but I am positive that a gay sex tape is nowhere in the equation. It would be nonsensical to the story.
Happy birthday to the ground!
I am largely in agreement except your last paragraph. You said in your first post that Moore was not concerned about he and his gay friend being exposed, but the evidence from the movie clearly contradicted that. Even after Moore was killed, the gay friend dared not come forward but instead revealed their gay relationship confidentially to Brenner.
Yes, from the beginning the two were playing a mind game. For Brenner, he knew about the tape and saw some of it, but then he was knocked unconscious by Kent and the tapes were taken away. He tried to bluff Moore by insinuating that the latter was in some "tape", hoping that would somehow tie him to Elizabeth and so establish a motive for her murder. Moore, at the beginning, did not even know Elizabeth had been murdered. He was innocent and my interpretation was that at first he did not have the slightest idea what "tape" Brenner was talking about. Moore was at first alarmed and in that situation, it was quite natural for him to think immediately of his own indiscretions and fear that some "gay" tape had been seen. So he pleaded with Brenner not to ruin someone's reputation - especially since the gay relationship had nothing whatsoever to do with the murder. When it became clear that Brenner was talking about seeing him in Elizabeth's sex tape, he knew that could not have been true (yes, he didn't know whether the men were masked but that was immaterial) and you can see he was actually quite relieved - in contrast to his earlier alarm.
To add further, suggesting Moore asking Brenner to withhold information about the tape (if that referred to her sex tape) to protect Elizabeth's reputation made no sense, since everyone knew about her messing with all the officers. Presumably, Moore also wanted to find the murderer, and asking for withholding crucial information that might identify the killer would not make sense.
Moore knew about Lizzie's tapes. He was her therapist and friend. He helped her set up the mock rape scenario and played the audio tape to the General.
When Brenner brings up the tape, Moore knows exactly what he is referring to. Here is the dialogue from that scene:
MOORE: My ass is already in a sling, is it not?
BRENNER: You mean the sex tapes?
MOORE: You're good...You're good...Great question.
Almost any answer incriminates me.
So let's cut the *beep* We both know l'm pretty much destroyed.
Can you think of any reason why Liz should be destroyed with me?
Can you? l can't, Paul.
BRENNER: I watched the two of you...on one of her tapes.
MOORE: I don't think so. Bluffing is the last desperate act of the weak.
I'll not help you ruin that girl. She's suffered enough. Leave it.
After this interaction, Moore's lover comes in and says he is Moore's attorney.
Moore is definitely worried about getting himself and his partner outed, but not because of any gay sex tapes. There is just NOTHING in the movie that indicates that.
He definitely wants to help Brenner but his hands are tied by 1) doctor/patient confidentiality, 2) the fact that he helped Elizabeth set up that mock rape, and 3) his concern about personal details of his own life coming out.
Also, a lot of people did know about Liz's sex escapades, but they were all people who had something to lose themselves. She clearly had a great reputation. The female officer they interviewed had only good things to say about her. Moore didn't want her name to be dragged through the mud.
Happy birthday to the ground!