MovieChat Forums > The World Is Not Enough (1999) Discussion > Am I the only one who thought Elektra de...

Am I the only one who thought Elektra deserved what she got and more?

posted 12 years ago by bjshipley1
39 replies | jump to latest

From looking at this page and TV Tropes, everyone seems to be acting like Bond executed her in cold blood, and how it was this super hardcore act. So clearly I'm in the minority.
First of all, she just spent the last few minutes taunting him about how he wouldn't do it. A known killer who she just got done betraying AND trying to kill herself. Then he gets her at gunpoint and orders her to call the sub off. Does she do it? No, she instead tells it to dive and attempts to warn it about Bond coming.
At that point she had it coming. In fact, I I felt kinda cheated that she died immediately, even closing her eyes. After that smug little display, I wanted to see some suffering or regret on her face. Instead she gets Instant Death that looks like she's asleep.
You just don't betray someone, attempt to murder them, and then gloat about how they don't have the guts to take you out afterward.

"We need a diversity hire."
"I vote Asian chick!"

[–] OldGrayMare 12 years ago

She certainly deserved her fate. She murdered her father, several other people, and was planning to murder 8 billion people just for her oil pipeline.

She was a sociopath. An evil woman who used her sex appeal to manipulate. She was a devlishly clever liar, too. Her video that Bond watches where she is in tears about how Renard was always shouting when he had her hostage was very convincing. It moves Bond so much that he touches the screen tenderly.

Elektra King deserved no sympathy.

[–] bjshipley1 12 years ago

Oh thank God, I'm not alone.

"We need a diversity hire."
"I vote Asian chick!"

[–] OldGrayMare 12 years ago

I'd say most people would say Elektra deserved her fate. She ultimately revealed she was the real manipulator, not Renard. For a long time you think Bond's theory about Stockholm Syndrome is true. The we learn it was the other way around. The captive manipulated her captor.

Elektra was the true villain of this movie, not Renard.

[–] FridayOnElmStreet 12 years ago

I say she deserved it.

[–] bsu_oak530 11 years ago

How did she deserve it? Not only was she naked with Bond numerous times, but she freaking straddled him with her basically bare thighs and you know what against him....she was sexy as hell....she did not deserve her fate.

[–] craigmoore-3 12 years ago

She definitely deserved it. But the fact she did deserve it doesn't take away from the ruthless way Bond killed her. It worked.

Interestingly, in the novel adaptation, she doesn't die straight away. She sort of hums, then dies.

"I never miss"

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[–] bjshipley1 12 years ago

I'd say more "pragmatic" than "ruthless". He told her to do something at gunpoint, and she did the exact opposite. I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't killed her. In the words of Eric Cartman: If you don't make good on your threats, then your threats aren't any good.

It's certainly not the most cold-blooded kill ever. "You've had your six" would probably win that one. Or perhaps the one in the opening of Casino Royale ("Well, you needn't worry. The second is..." "Yes. Considerably.")

"We need a diversity hire."
"I vote Asian chick!"

[–] Philattio 12 years ago

She most certainly did deserved death from bond. But what makes it shocking is her beauty and innocence, which reinforces the shock and horror that this is goddess angel is really extremely terribly evil and manipulative not only towards Bond, but M herself.

I mean, we fall in love with her earlier on in the film and I really enjoy every scene between Brosnan and Marceau.

In a way it reminds me of Jill Robert's in Scream 4.

[–] OldGrayMare 12 years ago

I mean, we fall in love with her earlier on in the film and I really enjoy every scene between Brosnan and Marceau.

I agree. I think Marceau is the one Brosnan had the most chemistry with out of all of his leading ladies. She was definitely his most interesting leading lady. Natalya the computer programmer did nothing for me. Wai Lin was just an action figure. The less said about Jinx and Christmas Jones the better.

[–] Khameleonic 11 years ago

Brosnan had a great chemistry with Marceau, yes, but I think the best he ever had was with Famke Janssen, in GoldenEye. She isn't the leading lady in this film but they had a very very good chemistry. Their scenes ooze with chemistry.

[–] bjshipley1 12 years ago

It's actually lucky she turned out evil. Because Bond sleeping with a recent kidnap victim seems kinda... unethical at best.

"We need a diversity hire."
"I vote Asian chick!"

[–] OldGrayMare 12 years ago

It's actually lucky she turned out evil. Because Bond sleeping with a recent kidnap victim seems kinda... unethical at best.

In his defense he was resisting her charms when she was clearly trying to seduce him.

[–] pking-2 12 years ago

Clearly, you're a bit more sadistic than James.

But, you're pretty much supposed to come away thinking she deserved it, not that Bond went too far.

Now that something more you apparently wanted from James...to do, I dunno, something even more grisly to Elektra after assassinating her...well that really wouldn't be James' style. He doesn't even really relish any killing (beyond, of course, his patented gallows humoring one-liner)...but even when he gets his most personal vengeances, say Sanchez in LTK or "Blofeld" in FYEO...he's always professional about it and intent on moving on, not inflicting tangential cruelties.

Basically...one must note that Bond is not enthused about, motivated by, nor looking forward to the killing. He's clearly far more passionate about getting to the subsequent hedonistic scene with the Bond girl, whomever that may be, each and every mission. This killing of the villain(s) may culminate the plot, for us, but it doesn't for James...he's not satisfied until later.

It's not just formula/trope. Rather...it is a character trait...Bond still revels in life not death.

That's why it pains him so to have to kill this woman (constructed to echo Tracy, note) rather than "rescue" or "convert" her like he's done successfully so many other times.

Bond lives to love women like Elektra (or at least, what he hoped he could salvage from Elektra) not to kill them. It's both Bond's achilles heel...and one of his redeeming qualities.

[–] bjshipley1 12 years ago

I didn't mean anything after he kills her. I just thought she died so quick that she probably never even felt it coming. I kinda wanted a bit of suffering from her, or at least her realizing her fate. A little karmic payback for the suffering she inflicted (and was about to inflict) on others.

Plus the attitude of "well, I slept with her so that means I'll try to redeem her" is unfair and sexist. Why is she so deserving of a second chance over all the men he's killed? Sleeping with Bond is not a virtue in and of itself, and does not make someone worthy of a reprieve. And having that attitude makes for one lousy secret agent. It's a good thing Bond can overcome that weakness and do the smart thing.

"We need a diversity hire."
"I vote Asian chick!"

[–] pking-2 12 years ago

I kinda wanted a bit of suffering from her

And that what makes you (or at least, your motivations) a bit more sadistic than James'.

A little karmic payback for the suffering she inflicted (and was about to inflict) on others.

For as many awful monsters James has taken care of...one thing to note about him is that he does not revel in karmic payback. He might want to get the last word in...but then he does the deed cleanly and professionally, as much as he can.

I slept with her so that means I'll try to redeem her" is unfair and sexist.

LOL. Yeah. Welcome to James Bond.

Why is she so deserving of a second chance over all the men he's killed?

Because. The judge is James Bond. That's how he thinks.

Sleeping with Bond is not a virtue in and of itself, and does not make someone worthy of a reprieve.

Tell it to the judge.

And having that attitude makes for one lousy secret agent.

Again, welcome to James Bond.

If you expect Bond to be a sensible wise secret agent by realistic standards, you've come to the wrong place. The joy is in how he prevails in spite of his real-world idiocy, every single adventure.

You do note that he always gets his assistant killed, always gets captured, always gets his cover blown, always destroys all his stuff, always waits until the world is but a couple ticks from annihilation, always gets fooled...right?

We don't want Bond to be effective exactly. We want him to spectacularly crash about for two hours, then pull it out by the skin of his teeth. Then need rescue in a lifeboat.

It ain't about effective spywork. It's about adventure, baby.

[–] bjshipley1 12 years ago

Haha well said. Though maybe you could give poor James a bit more credit. You make him sound as bad as Sterling Archer.
Though it seems you don't wholly disagree with me either. You argued that the sexism is part of the Bond experience, not that it was morally justified in any way.

"We need a diversity hire."
"I vote Asian chick!"

[–] pking-2 12 years ago

Hey, you're the sadist wanting folks to suffer in this equasion, not James. He wants people to be redeemed.

True, redemption via hedonism and sex...but still. It's something heartlike.

But...yeah, Bond's simply not known to be fair or nonsexist regarding women. THough he's not exactly entirely backwards either.

Just...one of his achilles heels is his desire to trust/save/rescue women.

Gets him into hot water, frequently.

That's just part of the James Bond deal. If you enjoy it, keep watching. He'll do something sexist and stupid next movie too, probably. If you remove that, I'm not sure you are watching James Bond, exactly. Might as well watch Jason Bourne or something else.

Note: I'm poking a bit of fun at it all...but James really is an anti-hero; he's not supposed to be exemplary in certain ways. We're supposed to revel in his naughtiness and so on.

[–] OldGrayMare 12 years ago

In the movie universe it's not really sadism to want to see the villain suffer a lot for the evil things they've done. Lets face it Elektra was evil. She was a manipulator and a cold blooded murderess who was going to slaughter millions for an oil pipeline.

In terms of other Bond villains and how they've been killed off, Elektra got off lightly with a quick shooting.

[–] pking-2 12 years ago

I know; I don't really think you're "sadistic" you're just a movie fan.

But...I have a point that is sincere: James Bond goes to pains (heh) to be not sadistic.

It's part of his distinguishing character. There are plenty of sadistic anti-heroes.

It's important to James Bond to be a non-sadistic one. He's actually an assassin who does not enjoy the assassination, and avoids sadism and cruelty.

He is cold blooded enough to be vengeful, of course, but that seems to be where James must draw the line. Gallows humor and grim vengeance based on a very specific moral structure.

But it would be shocking to see James enjoying a villains suffering. He really doesn't even pause for their comeuppances, whatsoever. Except, occasionally, for the "one-liner".

It's important because if James Bond, who actually has killed more than almost every other hero ever...actually enjoyed it...he would really shift from hero to monster quickly. It's easy to devolve towards a Mad Max or a Dirty Harry or a Rambo or a Paul Kersey.

Bond has higher standards of behavior. Really.

I like those other anti-heroes too...but they are all explicitly "mad" "dirty/desperate" "post-traumatic" or "obsessed." (By their own properties...I'm not hurling insults I'm using the character elements of the creators to describe the creations). They are broken men, to some degree. Unable to function wholly after deaths of wives and so on.

Bond is not broken. Not even after the death of wife and so many others. Bond is a man who retains a higher level of health but is interally teetering upon/resisting the slippery slope that the others have descended. But Bond functions on all cylinders, still. Unlike his broken counterparts like Jason Bourne and Harry Tasker -- whose stories are about recovery and learning to refire dormant cylinders.

It actually matters...if one likes nuance in action movie anti-heroes. I do.

QOS toyed with an idea that maybe Bond was broken...which it definitively answers in the last scene. "I never left." Those who judged him broken were wrong, all along.

[–] RParmly-3 12 years ago

It's certainly not the most cold-blooded kill ever. "You've had your six" would probably win that one.

To each his own and all that, but I disagree. He hadn't slept with Professor Dent, but he had with Elektra - and I got the sense that he felt something more for her than he would for a simple one night stand. For my money, that makes Elektra the coldest kill in the Bond universe as of now.

And yes, of course she deserved what she got.

There's a plan in everything, kid. And I love it when a plan comes together!

[–] pking-2 12 years ago

And I don't see feeling strong feelings for Elektra, and trying to get her to comply rather than assassinate her, and showing all that remorse afterwards...as cold whatsoever. Well, not cold for a Bond kill. It's probably the "warmest" and most torn and emotional about a kill he's ever been shown to be.

[–] OldGrayMare 12 years ago

Exactly. Bond never kissed and stroked the face of any of his other kills before.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bjshipley1 11 years ago

It's important because if James Bond, who actually has killed more than almost every other hero ever...actually enjoyed it...he would really shift from hero to monster quickly. It's easy to devolve towards a Mad Max or a Dirty Harry or a Rambo or a Paul Kersey.

I actually think Bond is worse than someone like Rambo (who in his first movie actually went out of his way to avoid killing people, and even only killed the one accidently.) Mostly because of the "Bond one-liners." It takes a pretty cold-blooded bastard to throw out a pun after killing someone.
If you gotta kill a person, fine. But cracking a joke about it afterwards?

The true repairman
will... repair... man.

[–] pking-2 11 years ago

If you gotta kill a person, fine. But cracking a joke about it afterwards?

Most of that is a cinematic invention, that was hardly there even in the movies until Goldfinger.

I suppose that could be seen as "worse" or as if Bond is particularly callous or sociopathic. Though, I see it as the character changing, essentially to a fantasy/spoof figure over time.

Basically, the Bond that really drove the crowds wild was the "Shocking" Bond of GF and the "He got the point" Bond of TB, so they ran with that.

I'm not sure he actually was changed to internally enjoy the kill, but yeah I can see how others might think that.

The other, pretty common interpretation of that stuff, if not there for audience comedy...is that Bond has developed an "on-the-edge" and "gallows humor" sort of armor which enables him to do his job.

Now, this is a signature gun, and that is an optical palm reader.

[–] bjshipley1 11 years ago

I prefer the literary version of Bond, who is well aware of his flaws, shortcomings and low life expectancy, and who genuinely regrets having to kill henchmen or low-level bad guys.

And the thing that really annoys me about the Bond one-liners is that punning is the lamest form of humor. If you're gonna joke, at least make it funny.

The true repairman
will... repair... man.

[–] d-walsh4911 9 years ago

James Bond is not some kind of redeemer. He is a womanizer in a way kind of. I would say that he sleeps with woman so frequently because that is how he is. And he isn't sexist. Actually, he's quite a gentleman from what I've seen. He doesn't put women below himself or at least...never intentionally.

[–] tralycr_c-1 11 years ago

Well, she WAS attempting to warn Renard, which was indeed an act worthy of being killed.

The only reason people even care is because Sophie Marceau is hot. Put Judi Dench in the same role and they'd be cheering every time Bonds shoots.

There is a man...he travels fast...he has purpose...he brings violence and destruction.

[–] bsu_oak530 10 years ago

Everyone here think she got what she deserved?

[–] Skvoznyak 9 years ago

You're definitely not the only one. I thought the same.