Broly - cool, but overrated power wise - Dragon Ball Z: Moetsukiro!! Nessen Ressen Chô-Gekisen (2003) Discussion

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Joshuarayjames 18 years ago

Cell is stronger than Goku was during the time Goku beat Broly in movie 8. Quite a bit stronger, I'd say.

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OMFG N00b! BR0LY R TEH STRNGST EV4R!!1

Seriously, Broly is way overrated. As I stated in my "issues" thread, he was beaten by something LESS THAN a Super Saiyan 2. Of course, Broly would just be another average movie villain like Turles or Dr. Willow were it not for his moronic fan base.

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[–] Crash521990 18 years ago

Judging by the characters it takes place during the break from the cell games it takes more than a supper sayian 2 to beat him it took all their COMBINED power to beat him. If the did that with Cell it would have been over.

This ain't no Brokeback Mountain, I'm a real cowboy.

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[–] deckzone3000 18 years ago

I agree with the topic starter that Broly's strength is overrated. I've seen people asking who would win between him and characters like SS3 Goku and Gogeta.
Broly can take on a weak SSJ2 but someone like Gohan from the cell games, or majin Vegeta would be stronger. And there is no way in hell he can match the power of a SSJ3.

it took all their COMBINED power to beat him.

That's not saying much, seeing how they were all beat up and weak when they gave Goku their power.

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[–] zecon202 18 years ago

Ummm, I think Broly is a Super Sayain 2, remember back then they didn't have numbers for each level, that was something Goku made up after he reached level 3. Gohan at level 2 when he fought Cell was only known as "Ascended" Super Sayain. That's what I think Brolly was at full power! the blue spiky hair inbetween was the normal Super Sayain level. So if the Legendary Super Sayain is equal to Super Sayain 2, that could explain the power to destroy galaxies, and be stroger than all the other Super Sayains combine. So ya he should be able to take out Cell or equal to, but not Buu or Super Sayain 3.

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[–] deckzone3000 18 years ago

Ummm, I think Broly is a Super Sayain 2, remember back then they didn't have numbers for each level, that was something Goku made up after he reached level 3. Gohan at level 2 when he fought Cell was only known as "Ascended" Super Sayain. That's what I think Brolly was at full power!

We don't need names to know what forms they are in.

that could explain the power to destroy galaxies, and be stroger than all the other Super Sayains combine.

He wasn't though

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[–] kendostick01 17 years ago

i agree with zecon202
ENDLESS LOOP:-SEE LOOP,ENDLESS
LOOP, ENDLESS :SEE ENDLESS LOOP

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[–] psychotyme 18 years ago

I agree with the statement of Broly being only beaten by combined power. The fact he required the whole teams juice to beat proves he probable could have handled it. Also there is the fact that Broly is insane and deserves the respect. Also you cant mess with a dude who's nine foot tall and capable of destroying a planet with all the effort goku took to make a ki blast. I do think they wussed him out in the second movie. I mean WTF!? He doesn't even get beefed to the max in the battle! He just hits part two and kinda lets it be. That is why I say you can't be sure that he would lose, he quits trying!

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[–] tbones-1 13 years ago

Broly is easily the strongest and most menacing villain who's not overrated at all. In fact the way they wrote the movie, unfairly underrated him without killing any of the Z fighters. Broly power is supposedly equal to a SSJ3, however, his power is infinite, meaning there's no cap on it and it was continually growing during battle. The other Saiyans attain getting stonger through near death battles and extensive training. Broly never had battles, because he was always destroying planets and no training. His potential is greater than ANY character, because of his infinite power.

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[–] dagould1984 18 years ago

I remember reading somewhere that the reason that punch Goku gave him was that it was in the same spot King Vegeta stabbed him as a baby. Apparently the spot never fully healed so it was like Broly's "heel" so to speak.

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[–] typhoon0000 18 years ago

broly is something like an ascended ssj2, his power level is around 300000000 so that's quite high, around the same level as super perfect cell

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[–] Aziatik 18 years ago

exactly is power is around perfect cell, which means that buu would kick his ass.

R.I.P. J-DILLA 1974-2006.

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[–] ozzyfan666 18 years ago

I like Broly. He's tough but he stands no chance against the following:

SSJ3 Goku - WTF?
Vegetto - WTF?
Gogeta - Where do people get the idea Broly could beat these guys.
Vogetto - Vegetto and Gogeta fused - O_o WTF?
Buu

The strongest, most unstoppable villian in all of DBZGT is:

GARLIC JUNIOR! Why? He's invincible and un killable.

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[–] shotokanchickens 17 years ago

What about in the Second Coming movie? Broly was able to spot a combine Kamehameha wave from Goku, Gohan, and Goten(and this is at the time of the Buu saga by the way) with a single energy blast from one hand, and he was laughing the whole time, not even trying. No other character has ever shown anything like that. Not only that but he never heald from his wounds from the first Broly movie, when he frist arrived on earth he was almost dead, only getting up to fight when he heard Goten crying. And when the combined wave finally broke though and it Broly, it didn't even hurt him, he just blocks it with a simple energy shield and, of course, gets shot straight into the sun. However you've got to remember that since Broly was destroyed by the sun and never really pushed to his max by Goku or anyone it is impossible to truely judge his strength. And no I'm not some Broly fanboy, frankley Coolers my fav, but give the guy some credit.

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[–] Bloody_Angelus 17 years ago

The thing people forget about Broly is that his power level constantly rises while in Legendary form, even when he's not really doing anything. He could just sit around on his ass for two weeks and be able to take on base form Vegetto.

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[–] dumillion23 17 years ago

i agree bloodispike, his power level increased about 2 or 3 times in about an hour of fighting in movie 8... so by the time Cell would come he would be way stronger than him and Buu comes way farther down, and Brolly would be way stronger than before... i say Brolly is damn near Unbeatable.. the only reason why he loses is because its a battle between good and evil and good always has to win.... did u see how he took a kamehameha wave like a foot away from Goku like it was shyt, when goku did that against Buu some of him gets blew off. Also i think in movie 8 if Vegeta didnt turn into a super saiyan before he gave goku his power, Goku wouldnt have won thats why they showed that split second of vegita in super saiyan mode before his ki poured out . i think thats the only way Goku had a chance to "win"...

I say one on one Brolly could beat anyones ass.. and lets not forget Brolly's power was controlled by his father for a while before Goku and vegita came to the made up planet, That means his father was afraid the Brolly could and would destroy anything at any time, hell he couldve destroyed the galaxy and there wouldnt be a Z team or anyone else...

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[–] bardocktheman 17 years ago

There's no such person as Vogetto, haha. And Garlic Jr was an incredible villain - he was intelligent, had great planning and was super powerful. But, when will he learn to stop creating the Dead Zone?

I'd like to re-think my position on my earlier post. I'd guess that SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu are about equal, as they trade a number of hits multiple times. As time goes by, Goku will eventually lose because he cannot maintain his power, whereas Kid Buu can regenerate at will. Mystic Gohan seems to use less energy, so after he gets healed by Dende, I'd assume he would be about on par with Goku. To sum up, at his best, Goku is on par with Kid Buu.

Mystic Gohan calls Goku the greatest fighter ever

Vegito (strongest character, but is sometimes disqualified because he's fused)
Kid Buu / SSJ3 Goku
Mystic Gohan
SSJ3 Gotenks
Broly
Majin Vegeta

Majin Vegeta essentially tied a Super Saiyan 2 Goku. In movie 8, Goku is only a Super Saiyan 1. He gets destroyed by Broly. Now in movie 10, there is a debate as to whether Gohan is a Super Saiyan 1 or 2. I understand that the movies don't quite fit into the normal storyline, but Gohan reveals to Kibito that he can take it one step past Super Saiyan. It can only be assumed that he is discussing Super Saiyan 2. Even though he has lost power over a period of peace (Vegeta: "he had more power when he defeated Cell"), it's clear that he did not lose the ability to become a Super Saiyan 2*. If Broly could dispatch a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan with such ease, then Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta would probably fall under a similar category.

*for extra proof, Gohan's hair was parted and in long, thin strands in movie 10. Super Saiyan 1 hair is very "chunky"

SSJ3 Goku revealed on a few occasions that he was holding back because he wanted other people to be able to save the earth in his wake. He loses power at such a dramatic rate though that it's difficult to gauge his power. So when is he holding back and when is he not?

Kid Buu is of course the strongest form of Buu. Mystic Gohan could not defeat a weaker version of Buu, which would put him underneath SSJ3 Goku. You can make the argument that Goku lasted longer because he is more skilled but has less power however.

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[–] supercroc12 17 years ago

In fact, his power at Legendary is just below SSJ3, so Goku at SSJ3 could defeat him with relative ease.
The reason Goku's hit did so much damage was because he punched the same place Broly was stabbed as a baby.
He was defeated by Gohan because he was blasted into the sun, if that hadn't happened, he would have lived.

But he is non canon and cannot be compared to canon transformations.

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[–] bardocktheman 17 years ago

Supposedly the last time he transforms (when his mind control device breaks off), he is in legendary mode. He gets stronger as the fight goes on, as evidenced by the line "I'm getting stronger...much stronger". I don't suppose it's unreasonable to assume that should he fight opponents long enough, he'll eventually gain the upper hand.

Also, Goku SSJ3 could reportedly take Fat Buu easily, the only character who is stronger than him is Kid Buu.

In Second Coming, Gohan is nearly an adult and has already met Videl. He has the ability to reach SSJ2 at that point, and still gets destroyed by Broly. If it were to fit into the original timeline however, it would probably fall after Cell, obviously, and before any of the Buu events. Because Gohan turns Super Saiyan, he has not attained the Mystic power up.

The overall heir-archy of characters probably looks like this, in my opinion:

Vegito
Kid Buu
Goku SSJ3
Gohan Mystic
Gotenks SSJ3 / Majin Vegeta
Broly
Pikkon
Perfect Cell / Bojack / Dabura

I feel like such a nerd

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[–] camdbz251 16 years ago

In the end, Broly's the Lengendary Super Saiyan, with the special ability that his power just keeps on growing, rather than decreasing from fatigue like everyone else. He's never been truly beaten fairly, either - we have never seen any character take him on 1-on-1 and give him any real challenge. His first defeat was by Goku with all that power from the others, and POSSIBLY in his stab wound. His second defeat was from Goku, Gohan, and Goten combined, with that blast from Trunks preventing him from powering up his attack for a short while - and even then, he protected himself from the blast, and was actually killed by the sun. I am of the firm opinion that he would tear Perfect Cell to shreds, judging by how he had almost no trouble with Buu Saga Gohan, and I think he'd also be able to kill Super Perfect Cell, albeit with some serious difficulty - that would be a battle for the ages. As for Buu... well, again, his power increases repeatedly, and since we've never seen what Broly is like when he's faced with an actual challenge and his forced to push his power to the absolute limit, so who knows? In the end, Broly's continuously growing power makes him unique, and I don't consider him overrated.

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[–] Washingtonian1889 15 years ago

The First Broly movie took place during the Cell Saga (probably in the ten days Cell gave for his tournament to start) Goku had a above average fight with Cell one on one and at one point looked to have won. But during the ultimate fight with Broly, Goku, future Trunks, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan couldn't even make him budge with a hit. Including a Kamehameha wave just two feet away, left him not even scratched or moved an inch. And in the end, all of those fighters were down to nothing when it comes to energy. As for Goku actually beating him, there are some theories involving Goku hitting Broly in his one weak spot, the place where he was stabbed as a baby. However, I think it was just that the Toei animation writing staff couldn't think of a plausible way to kill an indestructable legendary Super Saiyan.

In his second coming, it took Mystic Gohan, Goten, and Goku to defeat Broly on there best Kamehameha waves each. Broly was never even touched by any of the fighters when he went legendary.

The third movie is the only Broly movie with a logical ending, he was outsmarted not out fought.

Plus the way they describe his character is to be the legendary super saiyan that is both indestructable and power that never runs out. Unlike others, his power and energy only grows when he's in his legendary form.

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[–] Washingtonian1889 15 years ago

Complete power list hierarchy of DBZ (Not counting fusions) Every character is at their highest point in DBZ

1. Broly (Legendary Super Saiyan is indestructable and unbeatable, Broly is just crazy and stupid)
2. SSJ3 Goku
3. Kid Buu
4. Mystic Gohan
5. Majin Vegeta
6. Perfect Cell
7. Dabura
8. Future Trunks
9. Piccolo
10. Android 16
11. Android 17
12. Android 18
13. Trunks
14. Goten
15. Frieza
16. Android 19
17. Captain Ginyu
18. Tien
19. Krillin
20. Yamcha
21. Recoome
22. Burter
23. Jeice
24. Zarbon
25. Dodoria
26. Nappa
27. Chaotzuh
28. Saibamen
29. Raditz

"Oh, I broked it Vegeta. It must of been made of something weak like paper mache...or Raditz."
~Nappa

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] matt-cricket 13 years ago

" it takes more than a supper sayian 2 to beat him it took all their COMBINED power to beat him"
wtf? you think weakened ssj1 broly + his beaten to near death base form friends left over powers = ssj2 kid gohan? get off brolys fat penis. he is weaker than cell because villains are always getting stronger as time goes on. and none of the movies are in the timeline so broly cant have been in the 10 day wait.

" Also you cant mess with a dude who's nine foot tall and capable of destroying a planet"
every dbz villain?

"I remember reading somewhere that the reason that punch Goku gave him was that it was in the same spot King Vegeta stabbed him as a baby. "
fake, wrong, makes no sense, never stated or established ever in the movies.

"He's tough but he stands no chance against the following"
anyone above super perfect cell and ssj2 adult gohan.

"GARLIC JUNIOR! Why? He's invincible and un killable"
haha :)

"Broly was able to spot a combine Kamehameha wave from Goku, Gohan, and Goten(and this is at the time of the Buu saga by the way) with a single energy blast from one hand, and he was laughing the whole time, not even trying"
at the end it broke his energy blast and came straight toward him. broly *beep* his pants, fired more blasts at it, didnt do anything, screamed and it blasted him off of earth straight into the sun.

"No other character has ever shown anything like that"
buu tanked absolutely everything thrown at him, even a big bang attack from VEGITO.

" it didn't even hurt him, he just blocks it with a simple energy shield"
lol you make it sound like it was no problem. but broly was shocked, scared and tried to block it but couldnt do anything to stop it.

you've got to remember that since Broly was destroyed by the sun"
and? cooler stated he could destroy the sun and survived it. and hes perfect cell level. broly, a bit stronger, cant do anything except fry to death? despite killing countless stars in that galaxy he shattered? i call not dying to the sun.

"never really pushed to his max by Goku"
yes he was. broly noticably was scared and shocked when one of the heroes (goku at the end of movie 8, ssj2 gohan in movie 10) starts blocking him or driving him back and so fights seriously. so yes he has fought seriously in his anger before. he even tried to stop those kamehamehas and was too weak.

"his power level constantly rises while in Legendary form"
fake wrong, misinterpretation of the "ki is rising and overflowing" line.

"He could just sit around on his ass for two weeks and be able to take on base form Vegetto."
he sat on his ass for 7 years and couldnt do anything to three ssj1 kamehamehas. vegito would roflstomp this clown, or just die of boredome while waiting for broly to match his power.

"I say one on one Brolly could beat anyones ass"
one on one gohan was able to push him back, even break out of his hold.

"Mystic Gohan calls Goku the greatest fighter ever "
toriyama calls gohan the strongest unfused fighter ever. gohan >>> goku. and broly is far below vegeta.

"If Broly could dispatch a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan with such ease"
gohan knocked broly around and made him angered enough to fight seriously. and gohan hadnt trained in years and still drove broly back with a single knee to the face. ssj2 kid gohan would rip broly apart.

"Kid Buu is of course the strongest form of Buu."
kid buu is of course the second weakest buu. goku was scared of super buu and admitted he would die if he fought him yet vegeta said goku could destroy kid buu in an instant. plus buutenks stated he was the strongest majin ever, and goku was desperate to use fusion vs all super buu forms but declined altogether to fight equal to kid buu.

"his power at Legendary is just below SSJ3"
he had trouble with ssj2 adult gohan who was roflstomped and almost killed in one blast from fat buu.

"The reason Goku's hit did so much damage was because he punched the same place Broly was stabbed as a baby."
no he didnt. show me proof.

"if that hadn't happened, he would have lived."
cooler lived through the sun. so brolys weaker than cooler?

"I'm getting stronger...much stronger".
even if that wasnt some *beep* english dub error, it still never says "im constantly getting stronger and wont die if i do". and no you claim that means he gets stronger as he fights, but the line doesnt say anything like that. broly just means hes powering up to his max.

"Kid Buu
Goku SSJ3
Gohan Mystic"
toriyama states gohan as the strongest unfused character in dbz. plus kid buu is below goku being that goku says he can destroy kid buu. and gohan destroyed super buu who is stronger than kid buu.

"Gotenks SSJ3 / Majin Vegeta"
so majin vegeta who lost horribly to fat buu is on par with gotenks who fought evenly with super buu, and whos own ssj form is stronger than ssj3 goku?

"the special ability that his power just keeps on growing, rather than decreasing from fatigue like everyone else."
it rose once. even then hes just powering up to 100%.

"we have never seen any character take him on 1-on-1 and give him any real challenge"
gohan pissed him off by sending him flying back with a knee to the face and broke out of brolys hold with pure muscle. 1 on 1 means nothing when brolys killed twice by ssj1s weaker than ssj2 kid gohan. why do you think vegeta wasnt in movie 10? he would kill broly.

"even then, he protected himself from the blast"
after trying to stop it and failing, and blasted millions of miles.

I am of the firm opinion that he would tear Perfect Cell to shreds"
cell can beat ssj1 goku ssj1 gohan and ssj1 goten. easy. broly couldnt.

"In the end, Broly's continuously growing power makes him unique, and I don't consider him overrated."
since his power doesnt constantly grow, he has nothing redeeming or interesting then.

"Goku had a above average fight with Cell one on one and at one point looked to have won."
cell was greatly holding back and allowing goku to think he was winning.

"I think it was just that the Toei animation writing staff couldn't think of a plausible way to kill an indestructable legendary Super Saiyan. "
meaning they cant even write a movie and should be fired for making godawful pieces of crap that do nothing but waste our time.

"In his second coming, it took Mystic Gohan"
where was he in second coming? i didnt see him.

"Broly was never even touched by any of the fighters when he went legendary."
so you didnt watch the movie...

"way they describe his character is to be the legendary super saiyan that is both indestructable "
well since hes not indestructible, that means other statements are useless since this one is already proven wrong by broly ending the movie having exploded from one punch.

"Broly (Legendary Super Saiyan is indestructable and unbeatable"
defeated twice by ssj1s.

"SSJ3 Goku
3. Kid Buu
4. Mystic Gohan"
gohan is exponentially stronger. goku stated he didnt stand a chance vs super buu. gohan kicked super buus ass effortlessly. toriyama stated gohan as the strongest unfused character. plus youve forgotten heaps of other characters. where is gotenks? janemba? the other buu forms?

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[–] Martialhorror 12 years ago

I agree, but think detractors tend to oversell their points.

More than likely during his first movie, he was probably around the strength of "Super Vegeta" (when Vegeta fought Cell).

If he was around Cell's level, he would've killed everyone much easier.

However, after being nearly destroyed, his level likely increased to around perfect cell's. While Gohan is said to be weaker, it's never clear by how much. Goku says Dabura is about as strong as Cell but then later on says that Dabura was stronger than he thought (but then Vegeta indicates that Gohan just got weaker).

We also dont know if Goku was referring to Cell before or after he blew up. My guess is Broli is stronger than Cell, but I don't know if he would win since Broli is more of a powerhouse. My guess is that Gohan was only a little rusty compared to when he was a teenager, but probably had the same power (more or less).

With that said, I dont think Broli>Majin Buu. I dont even think Broli is greater than Janemba or that dragon from the last movie.

But who knows and really, who cares...

my reviews of martial arts and horror films
http://freewebs.com/martialhorror

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] MugSuperman 12 years ago

are you joking? did you get a good look at gohan during that movie, looking at his age and outfit, goku was already at his full power ssj, did anybody actually watch the movie, broly decimated all that came to him, goku, gohan, trunks, vegeta, piccolo were all nothing but flies to him

press 'B' for dangalang slap!

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[–] Martialhorror 12 years ago

No one is disputing that but it's difficult to say how the power scale worked at that time.

Part of me wonders if Cell could've taken on all the Z-Warriors, since if he couldn't, I'd imagine thy would all jump him like they did in the anime. Since the Broli movie is filler, think about the Super 17 arc.

Super 17 owned the combined forces of Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten and Uub with only minor difficulty (Vegeta surprised him once), but Goku in ssj form puts up a decent fight.

All we know is that Super Saiyan is around the same level of the androids. The second form of cell was significantly stronger than the androids (hell, his first form was slightly stronger than them). So I don't see how Broli would take on Perfect Cell except in the second movie.

my reviews of martial arts and horror films
http://freewebs.com/martialhorror

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