MovieChat Forums > Dune (2000) Discussion > Don't really understand how the Emperor ...

Don't really understand how the Emperor lost?


I mean he is supposed to have legions of Sardaukar at his disposal, and each legion contains 10 factions of 30,000 soldiers each. How the hell could he lose that battle? Why didn't he bring more of them to Dune? Is he stupid or something?

Also Arrakis is a big planet just because Paul Atreides threatens to destroy a large spice mass with some water doesn't mean that's the end of all the spice. What does he have oceans of water to destroy ALL of the spice? Get out! Here is the solution: You bring the rest of the Sardaukar onto Arrakis, let them kill the remaining Fremen and Maudib, in retaliation the Fremen will destroy the spice mass or two, but you still get to be Emperor and continue spice harvesting (maybe just less of it for a little while), House Atreides is dead, and the Guild Navigators still get to fold space while commerce continues. Idiots!!!

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Actually, Paul said that it would lead to a chain reaction that would destroy ALL the Makers, and, thus, spice would cease to flow.

Shaddam had something like three legions (at least) of Sardaukar with him on Arrakis and they easily fell to the Fremen who were just as good as, if not better than, the Sadaukar. Not to mention he was essentially trapped on Arrakeen as Paul's prisoner. There wasn't a way for him to contact the rest of the Sardaukar to come to Arrakis. And even if they could get there, Paul would've had Shaddam killed, so what was the point?

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You're right. Someone on the 1984 board told gave me a good explanation as well.

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Not too mention there were MILLIONS of Fremen, all just as tough as any Sardaukar. Numbers were on Paul's side.

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True but in the books there are a BILLION sardaukar. Carl Sagan knows this.

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You aren't serious, are you? There were not billions of Sardauker troops.

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Arrakis was the only planet that made spice. Even if it was unlikley that Paul and the Fremen could destroy all the spice, the Guild Navigators - who were the power behind the Emperor's throne - wouldn't going to take that chance.

Numbers were indeed on the Emperor's side. Even if the Sardauker ran out, he could still call upon the other Houses, who wouldn't want the spice disrupted anymore than him or the Guild. It was Paul's 'everything for me or nothing for you' stance, however risky, that won the day and the throne for him.

When darkness overcomes the heart, Lil' Slugger appears...

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The other houses wouldn't lift a finger to help the Emporer take down the remants of a Great House. That was against the Great Convention. If anything, but the Convention, they would rally AGAINST him.

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[deleted]

Against the remnants of a Great House? Sure, they wouldn't have helped him.

Against a horde of desert raiders who were threatening the one commodity everyone in the galaxy needed? Heck, why not?

And from who would the Great Houses find out how the emperor had helped the Harkonnens against the Atreides? Paul Atreides? As far as anyone who mattered knew, Paul was long dead. And who's going to believe the leader of the same horde of desert raiders who're putting everyone's interests in jeopardy?

When darkness overcomes the heart, Lil' Slugger appears...

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EXACTLY! See there was plenty of help for the Emperor he just should have put his foot down.

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Nobody knew what was going on. The Harkonen's weren't telling anybody the situation on Arrakis. It was the Guild that went to the Emporer and demanded he take action. He then decided to move to Arrakis and "take charge" of the situation immediately.

Paul noted that every Great House had military presence in orbit when he made his appearance in the Imperial Court, and demanded the Guild remove all of them at once - and the Guild complied because they knew he wasn't bluffing. Even had the other house had decided to move on Arrakis, the Guild would not have allowed it.

Paul, at that point, had ALL the cards.

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[deleted]

Paul was not bluffing, though. He DID have the ability to destroy the Spice, and everybody KNEW it. NOBODY was going to back the emporer at that point.

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How did he have the ability to destroy the spice? Find and kill ALL the sandworm in the entire planet in the limited time he'd have before the emperor's troops attacked? Seems he was lying through his teeth.

When darkness overcomes the heart, Lil' Slugger appears...

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Good god, you just need to READ THE BOOK. His threat was real. His action would disrupt the spice cycle and STOP the production of spice once and for all. The Guild knew it was not an empty threat but a very real one, which is why they IMMEDIATELY followed his demands.

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Please, read the book. To put it succintly, though, first there is the sandtrout (I can't remember if they osmotically split off from each other to make more or not). Their job is to seal off water sources because water is poisonous to the worms; it will kill them. When enough of them seal off water sources they have a chemical reaction take place, and a pre-spice mass forms, building up gases and pressure. The pre-spice mass then blows into the air with a big explosion, exchanging what is on the surface of the sand with the sandtrout down below, who become the 'little makers' or the leathery plant/animal hybrids. When the spice (which is produced in the chemical reaction) blows it kills a great number of the sandtrout, by the way. The little makers burrow down into the lowest levels of the planet and eventually become worms, having absorbed the smallest amount of water possible that will make the reaction happen and not kill the little maker. However, if you plant water on the ground over the pre-spice mass, when it blows and sucks the surface down, the water will spread out over the whole planet among the little makers and kill them, since too much water is poison, remember? It's a chain reaction that grows and grows. When it stops, there will still be worms left, but no more little makers or sandtrout, and then the spice production would stop.

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That was very good, aside from one little detail. Paul planted changed Water of Life over the prespice mass. That would set off the chain reaction that would kill all the sandtrout. Without sandtrout, water would become more prevalent. That would lead to the sandworms' deaths.

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Sorry, I knew I didn't get a few bits right. It's been a while.

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Sort of touched on, above, but another problem is that the Emperor would need the Guild to get any troops to Arrakis. The Guild, being precognitive and thereby knowing Paul wasn't bluffing, wasn't about to take any troops there. Doing so would have meant the spice stops flowing. Even if the Emperor could've raised the manpower to retake Arrakis (which he couldn't have), the Guild wouldn't have taken them.

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The other Houses would help the Emperor to take down one House, if that one House used nukes on people. Paul used nukes on the shield wall, not on people.





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that was enough to justify the other houses denying the emperor

trashing books is like the Special Olympics even if you burn them all you are still a retard.

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