MovieChat Forums > Dune (2000) Discussion > Can someone explain the purpose of spice...

Can someone explain the purpose of spice to me?


Not how it's made, but what exactly it is used for. After watching the films I think I understand that it helps the Benny-Jezzerit (sp?) Witches see the future. I also think I understand that it is used by the Space Guild navigators to help fold space and thus transport commerce between the great houses of the lansrod (sp?).

But if spice can only be found on Arrakis, how did they find it to begin with? I mean isn't there another way of space travel? If so it can't be too hindering if it connected houses before they even discovered spice. Or did space travel develop on Arrakkis?

I concede that using spice is a much more efficient way of doing things, but what's an extra week on space travel?

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it extends lifespan, helps to get visions / precognitive abilities.

It doesn't help to fold space, it's just necessary for the Guild to calculate the space routes, precognition, you know.

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It's also a nifty metaphor for oil.

It's only found in the desert, where it's buried under the sand and guarded by a bunch of messianic religious fanatics.

It fuels the interstellar economy and is a crucial resource for any empire's national security.

It is exploited by empires and the proceeds of its extraction are used to prop up brutal dictators and treacherous guilds.

It's also an element in a sci-fi/fantasy novel, so the logic of its origins and practicalities of its usage are secondary to its symbolic value.

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Anyone reading can pretty much stop here. Everything below is more or less repeating the same or getting it wrong.

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I don't think so!.. The mundane explanation of the metaphor missed the whole mystic/spiritual (Human vs. AI) point.


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"It's Got Electrolytes!" -Idiocracy

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the spice is a naturally occuring product , made by the worms , which is highly addictive , but does give cognative powers to those who use it in refined/concentrated forms. long term usage makes the eyes turn deep blue as shown in the films.
there is a book called ; the dune encyclopedia , it should answer all the questions you can ask.

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The most important aspect of spice is that it extends life significantly. But it has other properties. I has no negative side effects other than the fact that once you are addicted to it, you cannot stop taking it or you will die. It makes you happier and gives you energy as well.

It has more mystical properties however, all explained scientifically. For one thing Spacing Guild members will take it in large quantities and they will artificially evolve beyond human form. Once they gain a certain control over their DNA they are able to use the spice in precognition, which allows for FTL plotting without computers, but they can't see the future because there DNA is no longer human (correct me if I got this wrong). Advanced Benegesserit don't always use spice to gain precognition, they just need a substance known as "truth serum" which allows them to consciously manipulate and read their DNA, coupled with their greatly improved computational capacity they are able to see the future to a degree. It just so happens that the form of truth serum on Arakkis is made from highly concentrated spice.

Paul personally realizes that he has gained precognition when he realizes he has become addicted to the spice. To begin with, he already had advanced mental capacity to compile and compute information. But because he gains this genetic sight through his spice addiction he is able draw from the experiences of past generations of both women AND men, which gives him such immense abilities of precognition and power. Advanced Bene Gesserit are only able to draw upon the experiences of past generations of women. It is not until Paul takes Dune's truth serum that he is able to reach the height of his power.

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I has no negative side effects other than the fact that once you are addicted to it, you cannot stop taking it or you will die.

Tell me about it. I once punched my nan and stole her tv to pay for more spice.



With your feet in the air and your head on the ground, try this sig with spinach!

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"Once they gain a certain control over their DNA they are able to use the spice in precognition, which allows for FTL plotting without computers, but they can't see the future because there DNA is no longer human (correct me if I got this wrong)."

They can see and direct the path of the future, but they always chose the safe paths that they could easily see, where Paul took risks with his futuresight. It's established that following only the clear paths leads to stagnation.

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The spice extends life. The spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel.

....

Essentially, while there are other methods of space travel mentioned in some of the books, you have to figure that since this is the Known Universe, and not a galaxy (Which is typical in most science fiction stories), the distance you'd have to cover is incredible. What would be the point of trying to do any business if it took over a hundred years to get to point A to point B?

But in Dune, it's different. Folding Space makes it instant. It becomes a total non-issue. The only catch is that only the Spacing Guild has the capabilities to pull it off. They can only pull it off with the spice.

There are attempts made in the novels to come up with either a synthetic form of spice or to produce spice off of Arrakis, but until the later novels its all fruitless.

The spice may be great for the Bene Gesserit, and awesome for making you live for years and years, but that's just a side benefit. It's the fact that the Guild is the only ones capable of folding space that makes it so valuable.

To put it another way...

Imagine if there was only one county (not country) on Earth that had both coal and oil. They could set the price of it at will, and as a further incentive, they could be the only ones to provide steam engines, ships and planes. We'd still have other ways to transport our goods (by sail and horseback), but when you look at the sheer speed that planes, ships, trains and automobiles can ship things, it would be largely impractical.

THAT is the purpose of the spice. "He who controls the spice controls the universe". Without it, they'd be set back farther than we, in the present time, would be if we went back to the days of Adam and Eve.

"Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?" - Agent Smith

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The benegesserit sisterhood use the spide to see within which basically means it helps them control their own internal biology perfectly to achieve any number of abilities;
Super reflexes (the weirding way)
Transmuting poisons they've ingested
accessing 'other memory' (A collective consciousness of all the sister who've passed away which the living sisters can access for information and advice)

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At minimum dosage, it's an immune booster. "Health and long life is the gift of the spice." More and it begins to effect prescience which is why the Bene Gesserit used it. Surrounded by it like the Fremen and it begins to alter physicality - the blue in blue eyes. The Guild Navigators are examples of its ultimate effect - probably near immortal, prescient and physically so altered at the cellular level that they are no longer truly human.

No one is really sure how the spice was discovered, probably just stumbled upon it. Appentantly it took awhile for its effects to be realized and used.

Before the Navigators came on line, the Holtzman Effect was used - a form of space folding or warping. However, it was tricky and dangerous. I believe it's basically what the Navigators use, but much more reliable and efficient.

With interstellar travel, there's no such thing as an extra week on space travel. Getting to the next nearest star, even pushing your craft to 99% light speed (that requires a hugh energy source), would take much more than four years and another four years plus to get home. Our galaxy is o/a 60K light years across. If Uncle Albert is right about relativistic time effects and he appears to be, if you transverse the galaxy at near or even at light speed, back home 120K years or more have passed. Right now folding, warping or using black holes is the hand wavium of choice for fictional space travel. Anyone's guess what the real deal will be, if there ever is one.

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"Before the Navigators came on line, the Holtzman Effect was used - a form of space folding or warping. However, it was tricky and dangerous. I believe it's basically what the Navigators use, but much more reliable and efficient. "

I think they still use it, it's just that they guide the ship's path with their mind. Before them, primitive computer's did it, but the computers just gave, generally, a straight path to the destination.

If there happened to be an asteroid in the way, or the computer didn't route you around a star, then you just died. With a navigator, they see what they are going to hit in advance, and adjust the course of the ship.

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What never made sense to me was that if you're folding space, you're not going through anything. An example would be drawing 2 dots on opposite ends of a piece of paper and folding them so they're together. There aren't any asteroids to go through because you end up right there next to point B. I think Herbert must have had a specific idea about foldspace travel in mind, because otherwise it doesn't make sense. It seems like he imagines foldspace as a sort of path you traverse instead of going from point A to B without traversing any of the distance between them. Either way he never really went into detail about it. The book was published in 1965, before man landed on the moon, so I think the whole foldspace detail he seems to have gotten wrong can be glossed over. However, if he means to say that folding space was like traversing a wormhole and there were things in that dimension, he'd have a point. All in all I think it gets too technical to really bother with.

The spice allows the Bene Gesserit to have their powers (Reverend Mothers control their bodies at the cellular level and all that), the Navigators can fold space, and CHOAM can trade, allowing the empire to flourish. We all need to remember that it's a 3-legged system with CHOAM, the Landsraad, and the Guild as the 3 legs. Spice is essential to all 3. Without it, there is no guild, the most valuable commodity in the universe doesn't exist for trade, and all the rich people who became addicts die, killing off most of the leaders in the universe.

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Folding space in such a way as to arrive at a certain other point in space without actually moving is not dangerous of itself, but their ability to predict movement of other objects that might be in motion near the destination. You wouldn't want to fold from Kaitain to Geidi Prime and have an orbiting comet fly up your ship's bilge bay as soon as you arrive.

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With interstellar travel, there's no such thing as an extra week on space travel. Getting to the next nearest star, even pushing your craft to 99% light speed (that requires a hugh energy source), would take much more than four years and another four years plus to get home. Our galaxy is o/a 60K light years across. If Uncle Albert is right about relativistic time effects and he appears to be, if you transverse the galaxy at near or even at light speed, back home 120K years or more have passed. Right now folding, warping or using black holes is the hand wavium of choice for fictional space travel. Anyone's guess what the real deal will be, if there ever is one.


I'm probably reviving an old thread here but you should read Starfarers by Poul Anderson.
The basic gist is this: astronomers discover that there are light-speed capable civilizations and that they're close by. By the time the scientists discover how to build light-speed capable drives and get to said civilizations they've entered a period of malaise where space travel isn't just meh, it's taboo.
Meanwhile stuff happens back home, and anyway, it's all based on Einstein's relativity.
It's not about how to travel faster than light, but about the consequences that if you travel near to it, and what happens when you come back.

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