at the end when the kids confront the father the girl says "you *beep* me up the ass, you *beep* me, why do you do that it hurts?" the way she says it suggest that the only reason shes angry is because he did her anally and it hurt,, could have chosen a better line no?
share[deleted]
ummmm I dunno, I would think since she was confronting him about the abuse she would have asked him why would he rape her period, as opposed to why would he do it anally.
shareno one else have an opinion on this?
shareBUMP
shareBUMP
shareWell, the line isn't in isolation. She confronts him when she says "You *beep* me- You *beep* me." When she also says about it being anal, I think what she's doing is saying "wasn't it bad enough that you had to *beep* me, but why did you have to do it like that too?" After all, the abuse was certainly a matter of psychological coercion but I don't think we got the impression that he was violently forcing her to submit to his attentions every time. Therefore, he didn't have to take her in a way that was inherently painful.
That said, Jess is complicated and she says many things that seem ambivalent. In the scene in the bunker she actually says something like 'why don't you do it like you do it with mum', which is disturbing as it sounds more like she wants what is happening to be more 'natural', rather than saying she doesn't want it at all. Though equally it could be the only way she has of asking him to stop.
good answer
shareI agree, it had probably been going on since she was little (a baby?) and she regresses to the most basic reason why not to do it...it hurts.
shareFirst off, I'll say that I haven't read the book, but I've watched the film three times. I watched it again earlier tonight, so it's fresh in my mind.
Anyway, my latest theory is this: Jess (the daughter) was abused by her father at a fairly early age. She knows better than anyone what her father is capable of. However, as the victim of incest herself, she has a limited set of emotional & psychological tools for dealing with it. Her flat affect, casual sex with Nick from the bar & inappropriate nudity around her brother are all signs of this. I took the hug with her London friend as another sign of this. It seems to indicate that Jess has confided in her and it's not positive. In fact, her friend is so concerned for her emotional/psychological welfare that she consents to sex with Tom because Jess has convinced herself that it's what Tom needs.
So, Jess has made an awful deal with her father - he can have sex with her as long as he doesn't abuse her infant sister. Jess, being older & more mature/jaded than her brother, initially seems more together than Tom. This gives the outward impression that she is readily consenting to sex with her father, when in fact it's a Hobson's choice born out of a claustrophobic sense of limited options. A child, even a seemingly worldly 17 year-old, would have a hard time accepting the responsibility of destroying her family, which would be the likely result of telling her mother what the father has done to her and/or warning her about her sister. So, she offers her father the only thing she thinks she has - her body.
Just as the film is about the cyclic nature of incest, I also think that it's showing us that Tom's behavior is a sort of mirror of Jess. This only becomes clear to the viewer (and to Tom), once we see the baby in hospital. For example, the father's reaction to Tom's saying the truth out loud is to accuse Tom of being a monster for thinking such a thing. One can then begin to imagine what sorts of things the father has been saying to Jess all her life to rob her of self-esteem and excuse his own actions. Seeing his infant sister forces Tom to re-examine all the other things he has seen, or thought that he had seen, so far.
So, I think Jess is saying two things to her father; one explicit & one implied. In essence, she's saying, I let you do this to me & you couldn't even be bothered not to physically hurt me, but she's also implicitly saying that she let him do it to her but he hurt her sister anyway. The film is filled with silences and, even at the very end, this is something she can't bring herself to say out loud to him. However, her rage and sorrow are obvious: she's literally shaking with fury as the father babbles out more lies blaming her, Tom and baby Alice for everything that he has done.
I've just watched this film for the first time (I've seen a lot of shocking movies, but it's been a while since one made me feel as sick to my stomach as this one did, during the bunker scene). And I have to say that your analysis and theories are brilliant. I came to this board to get an idea of how it left others feeling, and your post filled in a few gaps for me. I hadn't made the connection between the promise to not hurt the baby in exchange for Jess' body. Thanks for the thought-provoking take on it!
Now I feel like I should go watch some fluffy rom-coms or something...
~ http://prettyh.blogspot.com/ ~
Wow, thanks!
Before I wrote that, I had re-watched the film by myself late at night. I thought of things I hadn't before, but there was no one around to talk about it with. :) I read a few comments putting down the character of Jess & that inspired me to write out my own take on the film.
Seeing it again made me want to read the book the film is based on, but I've read a lot of comments that say that things have been changed enough that you can't really get a handle on the more mysterious parts of the film by reading the book.
Apparently I can't type; why was I calling you DFantod?? Yeesh! Apologies for that.
And yes, it's in those moments when I've just seen something remarkable that I find myself on these boards, because I tend to prefer watching movies - particularly heavily thought-provoking ones such as this (and ones that are likely to make me react so strongly) - alone. I don't really want to break down in tears or start looking green in the company of others, y'know? So it's awfully nice to find intelligent threads and posters with whom to discuss such things in depth, and your analysis added to the experience of The War Zone for me!
I ended up writing a ridiculously long blog entry about the film (and will soon have the book in my hands, so once I've read that, too...yikes), but that rarely offers the same immediate commiseration that a solid thread on IMDb can give.
~ http://prettyh.blogspot.com/ ~
That is a fantastic answer and shows a deep awareness of the essence of the film. Thank you (I wrote the film and book).
I never wanted to "explain" Jessie too much, neither did Tim (Roth), but your analysis of her probable lifetime of abuse and how it has boxed her in psychologically and emotionally is excellent.
Thank you again for giving the film so much thought. We tried to make it with as much care as possible, in terms of how it would affect audiences - and especially in terms of how it would affect our young cast.
Best wishes,
Alexander Stuart
My word! You just made my day/week/month - I'm going to be walking on air for a long time. I'm so rusty as a writer that I was afraid my plot review was poorly written & hard to understand.
Thank YOU for reading what I wrote & thank you for a thought-provoking & well-written film.
You are very welcome. Your comment was so clearly thought-through and illuminating - and this is a really delicate, difficult subject. Thank you for watching our film three times!
Best wishes,
Alexander
Oh, wow - shame on me for not checking back in here for so long! I missed the chance to shamelessly fangirl your writing!
Truly, truly remarkable story you've conjured with The War Zone. I was only able to get it on VHS (yes, despite how visceral the effect was that it had on me, I had to own a copy so that, on a braver day, I can re-watch it armed with fresh eyes and new perspectives from fellow fans), but I've also earmarked my Amazon gift card & plan to buy your book. As excruciating as it is to stare into such material, you just...somehow...made it worth the pain, if that makes any sense at all. I wrote a long, LONG blog entry about the film right after I first saw it last spring, then recommended both the movie and the book to my online film & lit communities, and have since gotten many friends to seek it out. It is, truly, a masterpiece. Thank you for writing it.
~ http://prettyh.blogspot.com/ ~