Just started rewatching the series and I don't believe that he was involved in the fire despite the insurance that they would get. Anyone?
shareIt would make sense that Ralph started it he was already on Tony's s*** list for killing that pregnant hooker and remember Ralphs son had that bow and arrow accident that would sure be motive for killing pie Oh My and collecting the insurance in my opinion
shareFrom my point of view, it was beyond obvious that Ralphie killed him. In fact, that's what the entire subplot with regard to his son was all about. Even in the midst of his feelings of regret and sorrow over his son, Ralphie is still cold-blooded enough to kill a horse for insurance money.
shareit was a fuggging horse!! u shove meat and sausage by down ur mouth by the truckload!!
share[deleted]
Too bad Janice changed, could have saved T some trouble.
shareHe admits to it just before tony kills him
shareIt's intentionally left ambiguous whether he actually did it or not. If you watch that episode with commentary from writers they say as much. One of them says he thinks Ralphie did it and the other says he didn't. Most likely Tony's instincts about him were right but we were never meant to know the answer to this 100%.
shareDid it not say in the commentary that Joe played the scene as if Ralph did not kill Pie-o-Mie>
shareI always interpreted Tony's statement "She was a beautiful innocent creature!" as being in reference to Tracee, the dancer Ralph killed.
Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment. -Michael Corleone
I like that interpretation
shareExcept that's not what Tony would think of Tracee, remember he is most sentimental when it comes to animals and babies. He did feel sorry for Tracee too, of course, just not to the point of thinking of her in those terms, I think.
shareOh I definitely think Tony was referencing the horse and tracee both.
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Again, it's open to interpretation, but in my opinion, Tony was only thinking of the horse, not the hoo-er. Great writing in Tony's apparent forgiveness of Ralph over Tracee and not wanting to have him wacked in the Johnny Sack Boilgate, but losing his *beep* when he thinks he's killed an animal.
shareTony got extremely upset and beat Ralph over what he did to Tracee, and even cried to Dr. Melfi about it.
Tony really did take Tracee's death harder than he'd let on. Though he usually reserves this for babies and animals, I think he really did see Tracee as similar to the horse, a "beautiful innocent creature".
Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment. -Michael Corleone
The writing is ambiguous on this one (unlike Tony's demise in the final episode in my opinion).
And I know it's ambiguous because the first time I watched this scene years ago I was convinced Ralph did it, but after a re-watch the other night it didn't feel as though he actually did kill the animal.
As for Tracee, the first time I watched this episode the other night I thought Tony also had her in mind with he said what he said -- but upon the recent re-watch I don't think he did at all. Just doesn't fit.
But ultimately it doesn't matter. Tony hated Ralph for many reasons (including what he did to Tracee). Furthermore, whether or not Ralph killed the horse on purpose, he obviously didn't care that it died.
Tony had something building up inside and Ralph's attitude about the horse finally pushed Tony over the edge.
...and I'll tell you why in a separate thread on Friday or Saturday when I have more time.
And after you hear my theory I'll bet that at the very least half the people who thought Ralphie did it will be convinced it was Paulie.
"Stick with me, baby, and you'll be fartin' thru silk."
[deleted]
I don't think he did. Tony just had to put the blame on someone and Ralph was the most obvious target.
You who wish to conquer pain, you must learn to serve me well.
There's another thread on this subject where I already explained your take on it, Count, and of course I agree with you. I'll let you ramble it out in your own inimitable way.
I'd like to address the issue of Tracee, because yes, folks, Tony absolutely 100% positively without a doubt killed Ralph in no small part because of Tracee, and it's very reasonable to say that Ralph deserved to be beaten to death by Tony because of Tracee, regardless of whether he cooked the horse or not.
Animals and children. Especially his own children. Tracee actually appears in two episodes, although her second appearance is fleeting. We all know what a major horndog Tony was, especially during Season 4, but he clearly had zero interest in doing anything with Tracee. Yes, part of it was because she was with Ralph, but if Tony had wanted her, even a little bit, he would have done it anyway.
What it's really about is Meadow.
Tracee's story is told in S3, episode 6, "University". Two episodes later, in "He Is Risen", as the Sopranos ready to celebrate Thanksgiving, Meadow is walking across the kitchen, carrying a tray of food, and she smiles at her father. Tony gets an image, which we see as a quick flashback from "University", of Tracee bringing him those cookies she made. Ariel Kiley, who played Tracee, was fitted with prosthetic teeth, and then braces on top of them, in an obvious attempt to play up her childishness.
Not to mention that "University" is an episode that constantly cuts back and forth between formative experiences for both Tracee and Meadow, comparing and contrasting these two young women of the same age, who are going down very different paths, yet both have a good deal of drama surrounding them.
So, yes, let us wait for Count to explain who actually cooked the horse, but meanwhile be in full certainty that Tony felt something for Tracee, a paternal instinct, and it played a huge part in him deciding it was time to take Ralph out - or perhaps more correctly, the emotion he felt about it led him to allow his rage and anger overcome his business sense.
Evets_lives, indeed!
Well now...to paraphrase Magneto's classic salutation to Professor Xavier, "Greetings, old friend."
Afters 7 or 8 YEARS of absence, I poke my head thru the Sopranos' boards door for a peek and who do I see? Good to see you, Steve.
Please provide a link to the thread you're referring to, as I'd like to avoid 'beating a dead horse' --pun intended.
"Stick with me, baby, and you'll be fartin' thru silk."
You two should suck each other off in private and keep it off the boards.
You who wish to conquer pain, you must learn to serve me well.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141842/board/thread/259316622?d=260438938#260438938
I tried to get the top of the thread, but it's putting you on my 2nd reply in the middle of it for some reason. Just start at the top of it, someone else actually made your suggestion.
That horse and Tonee, they had a very religious, sacred, close relationship . .
I mean, for starters, it wasn't just a horse to tonee. It was a symbol of his success and what not, but more than that - he regarded the horse as some kind of a strange talisman - granted that, like ralphie says, 'the hoaas was no good, with the billz and bum shins' , which made pie o mye to be a bit of a damaged goods hoaas that tonee had faith in , like she's the underdog who actually won and he really got off on that. Plus the hoaas came equipped with a goat and tonee was really happy about that too. I think he may have kissed Pie in private when nobody was looking, even maybe made out a bit. The hoaas's long juicy tongue .. Also, painting the hoaass on that painting with tonee looking like a general, it seems the hoaas was tonee's war hoaas , so maybe the same way a general feels about his hoaarhs, so tonee felt that way about his stallion.
I mean, there was a movie called viva zapata where Brando plays a revoltionary and in one scene he explains to another guy why his hoaas is so anxious - because the wind from the north is coming in and he's restless, thoughtfully says brando, with concern, as if in tune with the animal's mind and senses. A special bond develops between a guy and his hoaas, so when a *beep* douchebag like ralph 'russel crowe said' cifaretto comes along and cookz your hoaas for the insurance money, tonee sees the hoaas as meadow and tracey simoltaneously - plus he probably blamed ralphie for corrupting jackie jr, which lead him ultimately to raid the mobb'd up card game and get off'd in the projects like a dog without a bone.
Not to mention Tracee was an employee of the Bing, and didn't do a damn thing to deserve the sort of cruel punishment dished out by Ralphie. No doubt it was more territorial from Tony's part.
share