The tanks in this movie... Wtf kind of tanks are they? They surely don't look German. They look like Churchills with armored skirts. Anyone wanna clarify what they were?
My guess is Panzer 4's... but Jesus they sure as hell didn't look like it.
Only a decent film btw. I can appreciate what it was shooting for, though it only barely pulled it off.
The movie was shot in Czechoslovakia...so the "panzers" might be doctored up Warsaw Pact stuff or...
they may be from that Hollywood army equipment ranch outside Los Angeles where these two guys collect, repair and provide to movie sets their various examples of army hardware. They have several hundred tanks, jeeps and trucks and a sophisticated shop to keep up and modify the vehicles to fit producers needs.
CmdrCody
[deleted]
You know who had some Pz IVs still in service until 1967 ? The Syrian army !
There's a b+w photo of a Pz IV, nestled into a shallow trench, with it's gun barrel looking westward into Israel from the rim of the Golan Heights. It was taken by an Israeli combat photo-man after the Six Day War, dramatising the military threat posed by Syrian armor positioned on the high ground over Israel's farm fields.
Where did they come from ? Not sure. Were they shipped from the USSR, along with the hundreds of T-34s sent or maybe it was France, who probably had a share of the machines, captured during the War.
CmdrCody
[deleted]
It must had been a wild time finding spare parts for the panzers on the worldwide market back then. Wonder what happened to 'em ? Were they shot up by the Israelis ?
CmdrCody
[deleted]
The IDF tank corps wasn't/isn't known for leaving very much intact in their AOR. The defiantly haven't forgotten the meaning of "punitive raid".
share[deleted]
I believe at some point during he movie, when the tanks show up, somebody yells "Tiger!" as in a Tiger tank. So thats what its supposed to be.
But, there were NO Tiger's left after the war, and very few working German tanks in general (they lost, after all). As for what kind of tanks they used, I don't know, but they probably grabbed what was available and slapped a bunch of sheet metal on it, which was something the Germans did during the war to give their tanks a bit more protection.
[deleted]
brad-davidson: With due respect... your comment about a lack of German armoured vehicles left after the War and no Tiger tanks at all...is not accurate. First off, Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland received many copies of all German types during and after the War for evaluation and analysis. There is a nice armoured museum there where you can see historic AFVs from many countries close up as well as the Anzio Annie railway gun (enormous). There is a Tiger I, a (King) Tiger II parked there and also newly restored "Elefant" 88mm tank destroyer (rare...only two remaining from the 90 produced by Porche during the War. Captured intact by American forces at Anzio when an anti-tank shell damaged its' left side forward drive sprocket wheel.)
Secondly, there is an armoured museum in the UK with working (operating) examples of a Panzer III, and a Tiger, among its stable. Several TV shows about restoring these vehicles have been aired. Did you know, for example, that the driver inside the Tiger had a steering wheel, instead of floor levers, to maneuver the tank ?
Finally, captured German amour, specifically many Panzer IVs, ended up being transferred in the late 1940s to the newly minted state of Syria by the French government. There is a famous photo taken during the Six Day War by a Israeli combat cameraman of the Panzer IV dug in on the Golan, with it's barrel pointing westward toward Israel.
Now, the movie tanks used by the director to make "When Trumpets Fade," were probably doctored-up units, created by one of several movie back-lot companies that specialize in military equipment used in films. The movie was shot in Hungary and a previous poster has stated that a local company in Budapest had provided them for the production company. I think they looked good in the film.
Thanks for reading my comments.
CmdrCody
Some working WWII tanks are also in Musee des blindes, Saumur, France http://museedesblindes.fr/ - the Museum was in some ex-French Armée barracks in the same place of their Armored training center.
If I'm not wrong, this movie was filmed in an ex-training facilities - some of the bunkers and concrete emplacements were part of a firing range, and the area around was a ex-Warsaw Pact (soviet) base in Hungary.
The tanks were something soviet-made, covered with bits and boxes, a large pipe as gun and what else to disguise what's behind.
Is impossible also to see the Boogie wheels, so is difficult to say what's under the boxes.
The only thing I could make up from the movie was that the turret seemed to be positioned relatively far to the back. Because of that, when they first arrived on the scene in the movie, it looked like they had a fixed gun like the "Wespe", but then you see it turn its turret.
So I think that rules out a T-34, because it has its turret placed pretty far forward. But that only leaves open a lot of other options. :-)
Going just by looks and time period represented, I think the tanks are supposed to be late-war Panzer IVs, probably G-J models. Panzer IVs were they most numerous, most often encountered Panzer in real life. They have the add-on armor sheeting mounted on the chassis sides and turrets. Also have long main guns with muzzle-brakes. Not as sexy/exciting as Tigers or Panthers, but definitely more appropriate....
As to what they ACTUALLY are, I have no idea. The skirting covers the suspension, which can usually be a giveaway. I think DM-DAAN is correct about turret placement, they're probably not built on T-34s....
Are they perfect, no. But somebody did a pretty darn good job in props, doing a reasonable mock-up. Head-and-shoulders above the standard, old-Hollywood job of painting a cross on a Patton or Walker Bulldog....
"We all got it coming kid."
'When Trumphet Fade' was a TV movie, it had a shoe-string budget in comparison of a 'real' Movie - and not even near a prime-time TV show like 'Band Of Brothers'.
So, I don't know if and how the prop-makers aimed to represent a Panzer or a Wespe or what else - but it's quite correct that at least covered the 'real' tracked vehicle under the jimble of boxes and tubes enough to avoid a BMP-1 or a T-72 with Black Crosses sold as a 'Tiger'. Good thing.
And, yes, the american soldiers too often called every tracked vehicle firing on them a 'tiger', exactly as they supposed that every artillery barrage they got was from '88s', or that every japanese airplane was a 'Zero'.
The Patton Tank Museum in Ft Knox Kentucky has a few German tanks on display.
They even have a large German tank cut open with a plexiglas side to show the interior. It may be a Tiger tank???
My favorite at the Patton Museum is the tiny, tiny, tiny Japaneese tank found at the start of the WWII exhibits.
I have read somewhere that the hardest WWII machine to find is a Japaneese Zero fighter plan. When they made the Pearl Harbor attack movie TORA! TORA! TORA! (TIGER! TIGER! TIGER!) they had to use look-a-likes.
**********************************************
Sig Line:
NASCAR EVILS: Speeding, Tailgating, No Signals, Dangerous Passing, Road Rage, Wrecks...
There is an actual running Tiger tank at the Bovington Tank Museum in England. It is one of my life's quests to eventually go and see it. There is footage on Youtube....
shareThe Musée des Blindes at Saumur (Loire Valley, France) has a running PzVI, Panther and Kingtigers, in 2001.
The Tiger there is running, too, as far as engine and mechanics: they just have not enough spare parts of the tracks to make two complete 'chains' on both sides.
So the tank coudn't move.
In the early 2000s, a japanese toy company sold a 1/18 replica of the tiger, remote-controlled, firing BB pellets from the gun and with sound effects.
The recording of the true Mayback engine roaring and running was recorded at Saumur.
For the record, those "tanks" in the film, were Stug III assault guns (self-propelled). These differ from tanks in that they don't have turrets. The main gun has to be aimed by positioning the vehicle laterally. Stugs were classified by the Germans as artillery, but really, they were used mainly as tank destroyers.
Believe it or not Stugs accounted for more enemy tanks kills than any other German armored vehicle of the war. This was due primarily to their long service use (1940-45). When in the hands of a skillful tank crew, Stugs were deadly.
They were also useful as infantry assault vehicles, but not as effective as shown in this film. A well positioned bazooka would take out a Stug with ease.
"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"
For the record, those "tanks" were Stug III assault guns (self-propelled). These differ from tanks in that they don't have turrets. The main gun has to be aimed by positioning the vehicle laterally. Stugs were classified by the Germans as artillery, but really, they were used mainly as tank destroyers.
Believe it or not Stugs accounted for more enemy tanks kills than any other German armored vehicle of the war. This was due primarily to their long service use (1940-45). When in the hands of a skillful tank crew, Stugs were deadly.
They were also useful as infantry assault vehicles, but not as effective as shown in this film. A well positioned bazooka would take out a Stug with ease.
"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"
The tanks in the movie rotated their turrets and fired during the engagement at the Bailey Bridge on the Kall Trail. Mark III Stugs had fixed turrets.
I think the producer wanted to simulate Pz IVs.
Good movie. Not a great epic, but historically accurate telling of the US 28th Infantry Division fighting outside the town of Schmidt inside the Hurtghen Forrest.
CmdrCody
According to filmpanzer.squarespace.com
the Panzer IVs are heavily modified Soviet manufactured 2S1 Gvozdika 122mm self-propelled howitzers
Yeah, I'm with CmdrCody on this one. I think they were meant to be late-war Panzer IVs, maybe J models, with the turret and side skurtzen and all. That's what I thought when I first saw them....
Thanks madcap7, if they were originally Gvozdikas, then somebody put in some real work to vis-mod them to look like Pzkw IVs. I appreciate the effort....
"We all have it coming Kid."
Yeah, they look like they are supposed to be panzer IVs with turret and track extra armour shielding.
http://filmpanzer.squarespace.com/storage/whentrumpetsfade/2S1_PzIVFrontQuarter.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1231705283086