MovieChat Forums > Ride with the Devil (1999) Discussion > What if the Confederates won the Civil W...

What if the Confederates won the Civil War ? anyone ?


QUESTIONS FOR EVERYONE:

1. How do you feel about the month of April possibly becoming "Confederate History Month" ?

2. If the Confederate Army defeated the Union Army and won the Civil War in 1865, How do you think the time line would be different today?

3. What are the major difference that you can think of if the Confederates won the Civil War ?

4. Should it be called Civil War History Month instead ?

reply

I'd be screwed, lol.

reply

Look up Harry Turtledove's alternate history stories. He's written a whole 'Southern Victory' series.
dph

My Gallery: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/member.php?my_gallery

reply

1. I have no problem with it. The Confederacy was significant in shaping Southern culture even to this day.

2. Impossible to say. Slavery would have continued in the South for a little while longer, but would eventually die out sometime between the 1880s and the turn of the century. I don't know if civil rights would then have come sooner or later if it would have occurred on the South's own terms. I think the U.S. and C.S. would live a mostly peaceful existence afterward and, if not reunited after WWII, might form some kind of entity similiar to the European Union. I don't know if America would become a superpower if the Union had lost the war.

3. See above.

4. Meh. Maybe, but true Southerners never really considered it a "civil war," but rather a war of independence in the first place.

reply

1. How do you feel about the month of April possibly becoming "Confederate History Month" ?

Though not a bad idea, I think there's too many politically correct people out there who would be offended by this.

2. If the Confederate Army defeated the Union Army and won the Civil War in 1865, How do you think the time line would be different today?

I think it would have changed many things in not only U.S. History, but also World history. I think the C.S.A. would have remained neutral in WWI. They likely would have entered WWII eventually, but not for sure.

Several Presidents of the United States would have never become President, including Woodrow Wilson who was born in Virginia, and who's parents though ant-slavery were Confederates, Lyndon Johnson whose Grandfather served in the Confederate Forces, and Jimmy Carter who's Great-Grandfather was in the Confederate Army, and likely Bill Clinton, I am unsure of how far back his Southern roots go, but his birth father was from Texas.

3. What are the major difference that you can think of if the Confederates won the Civil War ?

Slavery would have continued for another 20 years or so.

4. Should it be called Civil War History Month instead ?

More likely so.

reply

Slavery would still be going on. Article I, Section 9, Clause 4 of the Confederate States Constitution prohibited the Confederate government from restricting slavery in any way:

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Article IV, Section 2 also prohibited states from interfering with slavery:

"The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired."

Perhaps the most menacing provision of the Confederate States Constitution was the explicit protection Article IV, Section 3, Clause 3 offered to slavery in all future territories conquered or acquired by the Confederacy:

"The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several States; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States."

This provision ensured the perpetuation of slavery as long and as far as the Confederate States of America could extend it's political reach, and more then a few Confederates had their eyes fixed on Cuba and Central and South America as objects of future conquest.

Had the C.S.A. endured any longer then it actually did, it is highly likely that the Confederacy would have been dissolved by multiple internal secessions. By 1864, leading Georgians, including Confederate vice president Alexander Stephens and Georgia governor Joseph E. Brown, both of whom vehemently opposed conscription, the suspension of habeas corpus, and the general centralization of confederate governmental power, were leading a movement for Georgia to secede from the Confederacy.

So many strong-willed governors and state legislatures in the South refused to give the Confederate government the soldiers and money it needed because they feared that Richmond would encroach on the rights of the states. Georgia's governor Joseph Brown warned that he saw the signs of a deep-laid conspiracy on the part of Jefferson Davis to destroy states' rights and individual liberty. Brown declaimed: "Almost every act of usurpation of power, or of bad faith, has been conceived, brought forth and nurtured in secret session." He saw granting the Confederate government the power to draft soldiers as the "essence of military despotism."

In 1863 governor Pendleton Murrah of Texas insisted that his State needed Texas troops for self-defense (against Native Americans tribes or against a threatened Union advance), and refused to send them East.

Zebulon Vance, the governor of North Carolina, had a reputation for hostility to Davis and to his demands. North Carolina showed intense opposition to conscription, resulting in very poor results for recruiting. Governor Vance's faith in states' rights drove him into a stubborn opposition.

Historian George Rable wrote:

"For Alexander Stephens, any accommodation would only weaken the republic, and he therefore had no choice but to break publicly with the Confederate administration and the president. In an extraordinary three-hour speech to the legislature on the evening of March 16th, 1864, the vice-president carefully outlined his position. Allowing Davis to make "arbitrary arrests" and to draft state officials conferred on him more power than the English Parliament had ever bestowed on the king. History proved the dangers of such unchecked authority. The Confederate government intended to suppress the peace meetings in North Carolina, he warned, and "put a muzzle upon certain presses" (i.e., the Raleigh Standard) in order to control elections in that state."

reply

It would be tolerated for maybe 40 more years and then Russia would've attacked, set them goat-herders straight.

~Lance

reply

1. How do you feel about the month of April possibly becoming "Confederate History Month" ?

It will never happen. Just think of all the protests to Confederate flags being displayed.

2. If the Confederate Army defeated the Union Army and won the Civil War in 1865, How do you think the time line would be different today?

It is unlikely the south could have won the war in 1865. Their best chance was to win it early on, and they were well on their way to doing it. Southerners were better prepared and on average had a more martial bearing, however as soon as the north geared up its superior manufacturing and larger population from which to draw soldiers, the south had no real chance of winning.

3. What are the major difference that you can think of if the Confederates won the Civil War ?

The CSA had designs on expanding into Mexico, Central and South America. I don't know if they would have been successful or not. Concentrating on an agriculturally-based economy, and neglecting manufacturing, I think they would have lagged behind the rest of the world as the industrial revolution spread. The south supplied raw materials to those who used them in manufacturing, and that was the role of colonies and third world nations.

4. Should it be called Civil War History Month instead ?

As we progress through the 150th anniversary of the war, I think you will see renewed interest. I do think it will wane, though. It reminds me a little of the US in 1976, and the country's focus on the Bicentennial. One local city even painted the fire hydrants to resemble Revolutionary War soldiers. We haven't forgotten the American Revolution, but we don't focus on it as much now as then.

Nobody gets to be a cowboy forever.

reply

I consider this question as being in about the same category as "what if Santa Claus were real?" Might be fun to contemplate (see also Tim Allen in "The Santa Clause,") but it's not the kind of speculation that's likely to teach you much about the real world.

The Confederacy was doomed from the day their troops fired on Fort Sumter. In the long run, winning the Civil War was impossible for them. The CSA was quite simply not a viable nation. It was utter folly to begin with.

"I don't deduce, I observe."

reply

[deleted]

First off, if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a wagon.

Other than that, the whole idea boggles the mind. Perhaps a few Southern states would have deserted the C.S.A. - MIssouri first, then Tennessee, etc. when the value of slave-labor is trumped by steam-powered agriculture, perhaps. The South would be left with their human chattel - I shutter to think of slaves being starved to death but it might have happened.

Meanwhile, the North would have worked on perfecting the Gatling gun and all other engines of war.

reply