MovieChat Forums > Planet of the Apes (2001) Discussion > Ending EXPLAINED, and I think it might w...

Ending EXPLAINED, and I think it might work.

posted 6 years ago by HAL 9010 (903)
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The problem with this movie is that it seems to mix the 1963 book and the 1968 movie ending together oddly. Which only bewilders. And the ending becomes nonsensical.

But I think I have a solution.

The main problems, in the end, are the following:

How could a fairly current Earth that he travels back to in the end be taken over by Apes?

How could Thade have been this "liberator" on Earth, as he was last seen defeated in a destroyed spaceship back on that other planet?

* What if, the planet, in the beginning, was always Earth - just millennia into the future.

* What if, "Thade" is a generic name given to those in charge - not unlike, how Caesar is an imperial title passed on in our own history.

* What if, everything we see happen in the movie is in the far future of Earth. Just like the first movies from 1968.

* What if, when Davidsson travels back to Earth, and back in time, he actually travels to a point in time where the Ape revolution already had resulted in the Apes taking over Earth?

These "what if's" explains why we see a Lincoln statue of Thade. It is not the Thade we met, it is the original Ape Caesar, who was named Thade. And because of his success, all future rulers would so be named Thade (like our Tim Roth, thousands of years later).

These "what if's" explains why we see human landmarks and general society in the end. It is because Davidson arrives in a time where the takeover had recently happened... and so still quite fresh.

These "what if's" also explains why we have de-evolved humans and Apes in the future through most of the movie. The first "planet" he lands on is the Earth gone bad "again", causing Apes to be living in a more primitive world.

The moral is, I suppose, neither humans nor apes guarantee prosperity.

In other words ;

1: Apes will inherit the Earth.

2: Davidson lands in the far future, where the Earth is primitive but still run by Apes - and have been for many many years. His actions there help unite Ape and man - which perhaps for the first time ever will lead to a hopeful future for all.

3: Davidson lands back in the past, still ahead of his own original time, but when Apes had somewhat recently inherited (taken over) our Earth.

4: A Thade was the first Ape to lead and liberate its kind, and so this name was sickled in the Lincoln-Ape statue.

5: The bad guy in this movie is Tim Roth's Thade, and he did not win. He ended his life possibly as a prisoner in the far future where man and Ape finally learned to coexist and hopefully would build a sustainable future together.

One problem: The first planet has several moons.

One explanation: Since this is the far future, where even Ape society has fallen and become a mere shadow of its former glory. In this time period, astral events could have caught other rocks in around Earth gravity making another moon. Or perhaps the Apes destroyed the moon (split in two) in some crazy space race, and in doing this dooming their then advanced society and also explaining why they now (when we enter the story) live relatively primitive. It is after an ape-apocalypse.

What do you think?

I like my idea as it sort of combines the original movie with the book. The first planet is a far future Earth (the 68 movie) and the second planet is Earth, when it has been taken over by Apes (the 63 book). Each is quite different, and it would seem Burton tried to reconcile the two narratives. My interpretation above shows that perhaps he succeeded?

[–] overseas7 (3523) 5 years ago

I will read the book in a couple of weeks ( I will get it as a Christmast present ;-)).

Could following explanation been taking as a possible option?

Some loyal ape helped Thade to get out of the "Oberon". He took Pericles with him in order to pilot the space pod and reached the Earth a very long, long, long time before Davidson did in a way that he managed to change the course of Earth ´s history giving the Apes the possibility to rule the Planet.

[–] HAL 9010 (903) 4 years ago

This does not explain why we see Washington DC in its present glory. The take over must have happened in our time, I think.

[–] overseas7 (3523) 4 years ago

I would say, not to forget that we are speaking about a science fiction movie, that the apes had followed the same evolution as the human beings and for this reason you see Washington DC as in the movie showed.

[–] Ilyathe2nd (145) 4 years ago

Architectural developments are not an evolutionary path, though. Washington DC in the example of the ending is the result of specific individuals with their education, cultural concepts, sensibilities and ideas et al. being in positions of power to commission construction and others with their aesthetic senses, architectural ideas et al. to plan, draw and perform it.

It is a very unique path, and highly unlikely that another set of humans with different plans would have produced the same result. In fact there are alternate designs available online and in books that could easily have been produced.

Include in that equation a whole other species of mammals, and odds are overwhelmingly against even a single one of those building standing in an ape dominated world. It's more likely the simian revolution shown in the 70's films and tv series and recent reboots happened after the city had been built under human civilisation. It would also fit with what has been shown elsewhere in the franchise.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

The DVD explains it pretty clearly in one of the special features.

i. It WAS a different planet.
ii. Thade recovered the drowned pod. (a la Escape from the POTA of the original series).
iii. Although Thade traveled through the space-time warp after Davidson, he arrived on Earth much sooner and led the rebellion to take over Earth. (This plot device was demonstrated early in the movie when the Oberon crashed centuries before Davidson arrived despite entering the warp after him.)
iv. Davidson arrives and the apes have already taken over and established the new order.

It's a neat and tidy explanation. Yours seems very complicated.

[–] HAL 9010 (903) 4 years ago

I figured it was something like this, but it doesn't sit right with me. So Thade - who hardly could aim with a gun and then somehow learned how to fly a space ship - found a way to Eath and then what? Wait for apes to evolve by chance into intelligent, perfectly speaking humanoids? How long would that take? A million years? five years? Had to be while he was alive and strong enough to lead the revolt? And had to be while human monuments, buildings, and cars pretty much look how they do today. Is he just waiting and hoping human apes will change into him? And why would Earth apes evolve like he had; he was from a different planet as you said? He is an alien.... Seem like an unsatisfying stretch to me, and still doesn't quite address the two mentioned issues with the ending, imo. But Can't argue with the storytellers though, doesn't mean I like it :)

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Okay, I'll pretend I'm a Hollywood scriptwriter.

"...somehow learned how to fly a space ship"

Well, no less believable than Escape POTA where three chimps located Taylor's downed ship in an unknown lake, pulled it up and dried it out, learned how to fly it and somehow managed to launch it(!) back into space without the benefit of an actual rocket all in the space of a week or two.

A big suspension of disbelief in both cases...

"Wait for apes to evolve by chance into intelligent, perfectly speaking humanoids?"

The technology to fast track ape intelligence was already established... the Oberon used apes to fly spacecraft. (See Project X).

No idea what that technology looked like but Thade might have studied it via the Oberon's ruins and libraries for years -- maybe decades -- before he set out for earth. He might have arrived only a century or two before Davidson's return and set about fast-tracking ape intelligence in remote locations. So say he had three to five generations of apes ready to go.

By the time, humans made contact with these apes they were already smart enough to overcome the humans they encountered.

Thade could also have used the Oberon's advanced tech to swiftly overcome and subdue the human race.

"he was from a different planet as you said? He is an alien"

Thade was a terrestrial ape, descended from the apes (or ape DNA) on the Oberon. IIRC, the apes knew of the Oberon but considered it some sort of sacred or holy place. They had forgotten it as the place of their origin.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

"Had to be while he was alive and strong enough to lead the revolt? And had to be while human monuments, buildings, and cars pretty much look how they do today."

Why? He could have simply copied or mimicked the inventions or infrastructure he came across in the Oberon's library. It would be the smart thing to do rather than re-invent the wheel. Humans made all the mistakes, learned all the hard lessons. He just steals the successful results.

That all said, Burton's DVD commentary makes it clear that the ending was 'tacked on'. He hums and haws as he tries to explain it. It was widely reported at the time that he was told to add the ending so as to allow for sequels.

I get the impression the studio just handed him a few pages of script and told him get on with it.

My biggest beef was the initial premise and setup... apes trained to fly space pods? Dumb. It would make more logistical sense to use robots and/or VR.

And that goofy ending! How did these tiny pods fly all the way back to Earth? The worm hole was located in the outer reaches of the solar system. The pods weren't intended to be interplanetary craft based on their size and limited volume for life support.

[–] HAL 9010 (903) 4 years ago

This is, of course, a sort of never-ending battle of opinions because we both try to patch a story that doesn’t really patch. But, hey; out of respect of your time, I will play ball too :)

"Well, no less believable than Escape POTA… A big suspension of disbelief in both cases...”

- Totally. But this is like explaining something that does not work with something that doesn’t work. That doesn’t work :)

I love the original series and too “Escape From POTA”, but that was just too far a stretch for the story even back then. In my interpretation though, the spaceship they used was from "Beneath the Planet of the Apes", which was left by Brent on dry land. It helps that story a bit, but not by much. Come to think of it, that Thades somehow found where Davidson crashed, adds to this not working - let alone Thades knowing how to pilot a space ship. Anyway, my OP is my attempt to find an explanation that demands the least amount of assumptions… I still think it works better. It assumes it was all the time on Earth, like the first movie. Why not? It fixes almost everything.

"The technology to fast track ape intelligence was already established... the Oberon used apes to fly spacecraft”

- True, but Apes were all they were. Not humanoid apes like those we meet. And Thades took over Earth in our present time, or near our present time... So, the story has Thades fly to Earth and somehow free researched apes, still improve on their genetics - because apparently, Thades is a space engineer AND a bioengineer…. and in turn take over Earth. All within a few handful of years… stretchy, isn’t it?

“Thade might have studied it via the Oberon's ruins and libraries for years -- maybe decades -- before he set out for earth. He might have arrived only a century or two before Davidson's return and set about fast-tracking ape intelligence in remote locations”

- Well, this fixes this?

You have him land a few centuries before, go to Africa and begin experimenting w apes there, with lab equipment from his little space pod... create an army, and materials. Take over the earth. build America almost exactly as humans would later do... and all that within his lifespan.

“Thade could also have used the Oberon's advanced tech to swiftly overcome and subdue the human race.”

- have faith in us, man. Operaon was that crashed and ruined ship? It is like thinking King Arthur could utilize an iBook Mac to take over 20th century Earth.

"Thade was a terrestrial ape, descended from the apes (or ape DNA) on the Oberon”

- dang, you got me there. That is the explanation. I guess they also got human horses from this spaceship :-)

"Why? He could have simply copied or mimicked the inventions or infrastructure he came across in the Oberon's library”

- True, but does a normal car fit Aps physics well? If you are intelligent enough to overthrow a whole planet of its dominant species, it stands to reason you too are intelligent enough to invent your own… and not blindly copy stuff that doesn’t really fit your species. But true, this is a way out of that narrative hole. Not elegantly, you must admit?

“He just steals the successful results.”

-by all accounts, he stole Washington DC down to road patterns… Sure he did…. there can be no other and more elegant explanations (hint; OP).

“That all said, Burton's DVD commentary makes it clear that the ending was 'tacked on'. He hums and haws as he tries to explain it. It was widely reported at the time that he was told to add the ending so as to allow for sequels.”

- Evidence shows this. Absolutely. Burton is a great storyteller and he was roughed here. A shame. Anyway, I am not opposing your spin was the storyteller’s or producer’s intention. I am, though, proposing another spin, which assumes the planet was earth. This fixes these fails, imv.

I like my idea as it sort of combines the original movie with the book. The first planet is a far-future Earth (the 1968 movie) and the second planet is Earth, when it has been taken over by Apes (the 1963 book). And we do not have to patch what fantastic things Thades did or did not do in this perspective. It was history in its inevitable "wisdom" - a theme in both the original movie and the book.

My spin have man and Ape finally learn to coexist and hopefully now build a sustainable future together for the first time ever... in this post-apecalyptic world.

“My biggest beef was the initial premise and setup... apes trained to fly space pods? Dumb. It would make more logistical sense to use robots and/or VR.... And that goofy ending! How did these tiny pods fly all the way back to Earth? The worm hole was located in the outer reaches of the solar system. The pods weren't intended to be interplanetary craft based on their size and limited volume for life support.”

- Word. My OP was an attempt to fix this goofy ending, that is all.

FYI: I wrote this article about my idea, same but different: https://moviesandscience.com/blog/movies/planet-of-the-apes-2001

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I was playing scriptwriter while spitballin' some replies to your observations. I won't defend it. Another scriptwriter might explain it some other way.

My bigger point is that it stays true to the movie's ending and the DVD commentary, even if it's not the explanation that works for you.

If your explanation works for you though, it's all good with me.

HTH...

Sidebar: In Escape from POTA, it was Cornelius IIRC who describes how they dredged up Taylor's ship and Milo figured out how to fly it.

Brent's ship would have been a better 'solution' except that it was trashed in Beneath. The writers and producers weren't thinking of sequels at the time... if they had they would have tweaked the story a bit to allow for this.

Sidebar 2: I'm a big fan of time travel movies. For years a debate has gone on about whether the original POTA films were a time loop or a case of altered timelines. I was originally in the 'time loop' camp, but have since changed my mind. My reasons are practical though. There were story inconsistencies between the movies. The 'altered timelines' argument use this as evidence to support their position. I think we all know though that it was really just a case of sloppy writing, and the fact that the sequels weren't planned until they happened.

[–] HAL 9010 (903) 4 years ago

You wrote: "It's a neat and tidy explanation. Yours seems very complicated." - to me, not even close. Very far from neat and the contrary to tidy, as I think the many points of our dialogue tells. I think it is the opposite. Hurt my feelings a bit... naaa, just kidding, or.. okay a tad :)

Brent's spaceship was also in the forbidden zone, I think. So Cornelius and friends wouldn't have found it unless they dare look for it - which they couldn't have. Thank you for clearing how they rescued the sunken ship... I guess, Taylor's story made them look for it, and so kind of fits better than fixing a crashed spaceship... how did they travel to the past? was it ever explained?

Split timelines solve many inconsistencies. But, IMO the time loop perspective is all the more interesting; Taylor was indirectly the cause of apecalyptic war, and also the final destruction of Earth... and Earth is then failed to doom its history over and over again... pretty cold storytelling, but more interesting :)

"YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! AH, DAMN YOU! GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!"

No Taylor. You blew it up.

Cheers, interesting reading your posts.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 4 years ago

It also actually states in 'Escape' that it is in fact Taylors ship

[–] HAL 9010 (903) 4 years ago

yes, thank you. Kabukiarmadillo explained it to me above. I didn't recall - means a good reason to see it again :).

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

"how did they travel to the past? was it ever explained?"

As I best recall, in a drugged stupor, Zira tells Hasslein that they launched Taylor's space ship, they saw the earth blow up from space, bright lights or similar then crashed back to earth and found themselves in the past.

I don't think the exact phrase 'time warp' is used. In the first two movies, the two ships were following a 'Hasslein curve' -- pseudo-science babble to explain how they traveled into the far future while only months passed by for the crews on the ships. (An awkward translation of one of Einstein's actual theories.)

The third movie retconned the already dodgy science to allow travel to the distant past as well.

Head on over to the various Terminator and Back to the Future boards if you want to read endless threads about time loops versus alternate timelines. That s**t goes on forever...

Cheers...

[–] overseas7 (3523) 4 years ago

"How did these tiny pods fly all the way back to Earth?" That is not logical but we are speaking about science-fiction after all...