Lots of innocent victims - The Matrix (1999) Discussion

[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

You're right.

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

And they don't bat an eye!

I just came back from seeing the movie. When are you going, Tex?

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[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

Tomorrow night.

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

Okay, have fun. I definitely had.😁

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[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

Thanks. Did you notice anything wrong with the picture quality? Someone said the PQ was terrible at their viewing:

https://moviechat.org/tt0133093/The-Matrix/5d5eb90bd6d5c41589576eb1/20th-Anniversary-screenings-83019?reply=5d668387339d1730b895b93a

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

Let me first say, I hardly go to the theatre anymore, so I'm not sure how it compares to newer movies.

There were thin black bars at the top and bottom, but I did not notice any at the sides. Could be because I was too focused on the movie to see it, though.

I didn't see any issue with the contrast. There is some grain and the scenes with special effects did seem a bit more blurry. I mean, it's obvious it's a movie from 1999. It did look better than Scream, which I saw last week.

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[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

You saw Scream in a theater?

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

Yes. I saw it back in 1997 and it's one of my favourites, so I just had to see it again!

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[–] TexasJack (12515) 5 years ago

It was very good, I agree.

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[–] PhoenixVanguard (45) 5 years ago

During one of their training programs, Morpheus emphasizes that anyone in the Matrix can be taken over by an agent, so they really don't have much of a choice. The agents don't have bodies of their own and need to jack into the bodies of other people to act within the matrix. Even when Trinity takes out an agent on the rooftop, it was actually a real person that she was killing.

Those security guards needed to be taken out. The agents use police and security as reinforcements because it gives them extra bodies to jack into; they're like extra lives in a video game and give them the opportunity to be almost everywhere at once. This is why Agent Smith mentions to the lieutenant in the opening scene that they were given specific orders that they were needed for protection. They just wanted extra bodies to take over if needed.

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

I know all that. It just seems weird they kill off dozens of innocent people while trying to save humanity and they don't even seem to care. No feelings of guilt whatsoever. Neo immediately starts shooting people up without asking any questions.

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[–] Jamfo (408) 5 years ago

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

If someone told you that sacrificing two or three dozen people would save six billion others, would you do it?

That is a long-standing moral question, but I do believe most people would be able to justify stakes of that magnitude.

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

"If someone told you that sacrificing two or three dozen people would save six billion others, would you do it?"

The point is that no one said this in the movie. They just shot up those poor security guards and police officers like it was nothing and those scenes werd portrayed as really violent and cool. And there's no denying they are cool, but it's just weird if you think about it.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

"The point is that no one said this in the movie. They just shot up those poor security guards and police officers like it was nothing and those scenes werd portrayed as really violent and cool. "

Brainwashed, conditioned, indoctrinated people are always given rationales for murdering 'those monsters', and can murder and kill human beings without immediate regret or remorse. They are called 'soldiers', but no one is like that naturally. Every single soldier had to be brainwashed, their personality and psyche had to be destroyed and then re-constructed - this is why armies of this planet destroy the individualism for the 'hivemind', and condition people to obey immediately, without thinking.

So obeying becomes a reflex - killing people is just another 'task', and it happens for a 'noble cause' every time.

The problem with this movie isn't that Neo and others are made into soldiers with brainwashing, conditioning, etc. (which they are), but that they lose all humanity so quickly, that they don't even feel -= ANYTHING =- before, during or after massacring a big amount of innocent people.

This part is definitely the weirdest part of this movie. I know I would be questioning my identity and shaking while crying and not being able to get a grip psychologically, if I did something like that. I wouldn't know who or what I am or what I have become, and I can't even imagine how bad I would feel about it, and how shocked that someone got me doing something so horrible, REGARDLESS of 'whether there was a choice' or not.

Sure, it's a 'cool thing' from an outsider's perspective, but at least they could've shown Neo and others FEELING BAD ABOUT IT, because that's the normal, automatic _human_ reaction.

But they go on like machines. I wonder if this was intentional. Tank even comments, "He... is a machine!".

Maybe he is?

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[–] captainbucky (15252) 5 years ago

Henchmen

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[–] Stratego (29239) 5 years ago

Unwitting henchmen, that is.

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[–] Ace_Spade (9343) 4 years ago

Only way into the building is to lay waste to the guards. Can't leave around that many potential agents nearby.

"...these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

"Only way into the building is to lay waste to the guards. Can't leave around that many potential agents nearby."

Murderous maniacs, dictators, heartless, soulless, evil people, and other twisted and warped haters who think there are good reasons for murdering human beings ALWAYS find some kind of 'good-sounding rationale' for doing that crap.

They could have brought -ANYTHING- they 'need' with them. This includes sleeping gas, futuristic tech that didn't exist in 1999 yet, tazers, friggin 'invisibility cloaks' for all we know.

But these are bloodthirsty crazies without any concern or empathy for human life.

It's not 'whether they had a choice' (and it's a movie, so someone wrote it, so they definitely had a choice - but even if we contemplate their kind of reality, they could have had ANYTHING from the 'construct' program, they can learn ANY skill in seconds (including persuasion, hypnosis, suggestion, etc.), and if nothing else works, how about LSD, mushrooms, etc.?

First shoot tranquilizers to everyone, then force-feed them mushrooms or such, they'll be guaranteed to be 'out of your way' until Morpheus is safe.

These are just a few ideas, I am sure a writer (or Neo+Tank+Trinity) could've come up with a lot more (especially based on their experience with the 'Construct' program, and the Matrix and fighting agents).

There's ALWAYS another choice than to 'waste' the guards. Get them 'wasted' would be more effective, and wouldn't sacrifice their lives.

My point about this thing is always how shockingly 'non-reactionary' these people are. How somenoe can go from 'computer nerd' to 'assassin' without ANY feelings of remorse, fear, regret, empathy, sympathy, sadness. No tears, no crying after you just massacred a truckload of innocent people just trying to do their jobs?

Who are the machines again..?

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[–] Ace_Spade (9343) 4 years ago

Well, they probably could have come up with a couple ways in that didn't involve sheer firepower, but firepower is obvious and requires no extensive plan. They needed to get Morpheus *fast*.

Tranquilizers don't go through body armour?

We don't know what the construct program can and can't do. It might actually have certain limitations (maybe the matrix won't process anything too "sci-fi", thus preventing personal force fields and hand-held rail canons or something...?)

We can argue real world necessity for violence or destruction (as per your opening "justification" point - which is a good point), but in the world of the film we know that the machines are enslaving humanity. At this point, we know what "bad guy" is in the film, so when the heroes say, "Yeah, sometimes we had to grab a bunch of guns; we were fighting tyranny" we know that - in the movie's world - they're right. Real world, yes, the line between freedom fighter and terrorist is sometimes totally political (sometimes not; I'd argue that the deliberate targeting of civilians, for instance, is one potential hallmark of a terrorist (one)). But in the film world, we have a clearer delineation. It's not that kind of movie.

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