The Garden of Eden???


I noticed in one scene when the outside gate of Matthew's house is shown there is a sign that reads Villa Eden. I also see that the garden plays a big part in this movie and would like your opinion on what it symbolizes and how does this tie into Matt and Nimi.

I also took note of something when Nimi goes to Matt and Jenny's for drinks and they tour the garden. Jenny and John walk through the foilage and it even looks like they step on the plants; while Nimi and Matt walk on the path outside of the foilage. What do you think?

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There are many references to the Garden of Eden and temptation in this. I am not sure that Matthew and Nimi are meant to be Adam and Eve though, for the most part. Matthew could even be the serpent at times bringing temptation to Nimi!! Perspectives shift a lot in this, it is partly about how differently things can be seen by different individuals and groups.
I think John and Jenny walking on the flowerbeds is a mixture of rudeness, destructivenes, disrespect and the fact that they are quite simply out of place there and never want to fit in. They are sophisticated, but uncouth which Matthew is not. Jenny and John are a now a couple as are Matthew and Nimi whatever they may think or say, they already really belong together like that. There is a social and emotional union as well as the physical one.and the beginnings of a spiritual aspect, at least in Matthew and Nimi's case. They finish each other's sentences and trains of thought. All that's missing is the committment and they are taking steps towards that. Their loyalties have already transferred. They may lose confidence and pull back and try to re-establish their previous relationships but it is already too late. It is just a matter of time, it cannot be precipitated or prevented. The tomatoes are nearly ripe!

The right to free speech stops short of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Mark Twain

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Well, I think that Matthew and Nimi are eating forbidden fruits so to speak. He's married, she's engaged. They have an interesting discussion imagining the garden to be the garden of Eden. "What would you leave out if this were the garden of Eden," Matthew asks. Nimi answers: "Shame and judgement" and when Nimi asks Matthew the same, he answers: "Fear and self-loathing." It's quite symbolic for their relationship, I think, apart from the fact that the garden is uniting them because Nimi is re-arranging it (symbolic in itself) and Matthew is the owner.

I believe that his wife steps on the plants deliberately to a) sort of humiliate Nimi and b) to show her that it's hers and she can do with it what she likes, as with Matthew... at least that's what she thinks at that point in the story.

Makes sense? :)

Renée

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That's why I love having these discussions. Others see things that you don't. I loved your responses...very beautiful and enlightening. I really didn't think about the pairing aspect, as far as Jenny and John's relationship; and the part about the forbidden fruit of their relationship, very noteworthy. I also noticed how Matt and Nimi ball up their papers and throw them away...I think I've seen this movie too much!...but it kind of shows a similarity in their personalities, probably of impatience.

Could the garden be representative of Life or Love itself? and John and Jenny's stepping on the plants a disregard for commitment and love in relationships? Matt gives Nimi this stare of concern when Jenny picks the unripe tomatoes, and when he stared at Jenny he seemed to be saying "what are you doing? don't do that, don't destroy Nimi's work." How sweet of him!

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I think Jenny and John have a tendency to walk all over people, Matthew is on the defensive a lot, and not always at fault. I don't think J and J lack commitment. I think they are strongly committed to the wrong things. Walking on the beds, not the path, is a sign of assumed and misplaced ownership, on Jenny's part, I agree, but I think there is more as I said before. John doesn't own anything or anyone on the face of it. He is destroying Nimi's work to get her out of Matthew's life even though he is sleeping with Matthew's wife.
I think the garden does represent Matthew's life. He invites Nimi in and wants her to change it, but is very equivocal about how much he will let her do and why he has asked her to do it. He wants to help her and himself but is not sure how far he dares to go. He clearly does not want his wife there, does not like her ideas or her behaviour. She does not belong in his life or his garden.
There is a forbidden fruit aspect of course although I don't think Matthew and Nimi are doing anything wrong together. It is his marriage and her engagement that are in every way wrong, irrespective of how society would view it, without knowing all the facts.
I love the scene where they say what they would leave out of the Garden of Eden. It tells you so much about them and what they have suffered and fear. I think there is some clue to Matthew's sleeplessness here.

The right to free speech stops short of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Mark Twain

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Very deep. Especially enjoyed your response about John and Jenny and how they are committed, but to the wrong things. They are committed in the bedroom but not in the trenches of life, which is what Matthew needed. I love the scene where he says "What happens when we aren't fit, when we need".

Loved the part when you likened the Garden to Matthew's life and his inviting Nimi in to tend it. So the Garden represents Matthew's Life and at Nimi's wedding when he presents the tomatoes to her, is he saying...Here is the bounty you have produced; you have cultivated my life with your love and here is the fruit of your labor? The tomatoes representing both temptation and love?

I agree. The relationships Matt & Nimi were involved in were wrong and they had the courage to correct those situations, instead of remaining in them like so many people do today. Sometimes, you need to recognize you've made a mistake and then move on, not continue in a farce. Also, I will have to watch that eden discussion scene again because from what you're saying it does seem to give more insight to Matt and Nimi.

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I don't think J and J are just committed sexually, I think they are both very materialistic and into keeping up appearances which are not so important to Matthew, or Nimi. For instance it is not really immaturity that makes Matthew wear a Saracen wristwatch not a Rolex, he is more imaginative and given to original thinking.
The respect that is so necessary in a relationshio where there are differences has long gone from Matthew and Jenny's,if it was ever there. Matthew and Nimi learn to respect and trust each other quite quickly really and it holds up even when they are arguing or deciding, albeit reluctantly, to part. Matthew will be more compatible with Nimi, and her more practical creativity will be good for him.
Nimi will have none of Matthew and Jenny's Truth Game, which is really a Living-a-lie Game. She frees Matthew to be honest and in admitting to weakness, that he is "not fit" rather than "Better than ever" he is strengthened. She too is strengthened by admitting her needs as much as by establishing her priorities.
I think the fact that Nimi has a very different attitude to his illness than his wife is a very positive thing, parallel to making plants grow.

The right to free speech stops short of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Mark Twain

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I must say that I am enjoying the insights on this board. I knew this movie had depth, but you guys are exposing thoughts and ideas I hadn't even considered. This has given me a new respect for the people who made this movie.

I really hadn't payed much attention to the similarities in Matthew & Nimi's personalities but through your insights now I see how they are both creators, artists, and romantics. Matthew wearing a Saracen communicator instead of a Rolex...that is priceless! Always wondered about that expression "Never Better" and also the Truth Game. Matthew was tired of playing games and was ready to truly grow up in every aspect of his life...ready to move from comic books to novels. Also, I wanted to mention that beautiful scene when Matt came to Nimi's to apologize for his rude behavior to Sammy because he interrupted their romantic interlude, and Matt said "I'm afraid of you...and of wanting to be with you" **Tears!**. Oh, I've been so maudlin these days...either it's menopause or getting closer to that time of the month!

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It is a very touching film at times, but the humour is really funny too. I just love the "girl talk" and the things Sammy comes out with.

The right to free speech stops short of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Mark Twain

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Yes, Madame Rosa is very funny in particular. She had me laughing when she held up the red dress, the expression on her face after Talking Drum said "Rosa, the Man is a Priest!" Also, when she says somebody in the beauty shop must be having plenty of sex because of how the plants were growing!

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No wonder Matthew wound up with so many tomatoes!!!

The right to free speech stops short of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Mark Twain

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It seems as if Nimi spent a lot of time cultivating Matthew's Garden! She loved taking long leisurely lunches with him, if you know what I mean.

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I didn't notice the garden name, but I will go back and look at the movie again. I think that Jenny noticed that her husband Matthew cared a little bit more about his woman then he had previous ones (since they had an open marriage). Because Matthew kept Nimi's garden gloves in his bedroom as if he needed something of hers close to him. And since Jenny knew that Nimi was the one to design their garden I think that she did not care that she was walking on the plants or breaking off tomatoes that were not ready. She somehow knew that Nimi was important to Matthew.

Also, I noticed that when John suggested playing a game and Jenny quickly agreed, that Matthew looks at Jenny with an angry look and suggest Truth session as if he needed to know something from her.

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That's a good observation. In the scene where she hands him the lotion then asks him when he's going to sleep with her, he did say he questioned their marriage. So maybe that's what was really on his mind, their farce of a marriage and the reason for its existence.

Also, remember the scene when Jenny invites Nimi for drinks. When the servant announces her she says to John something like "and I thought he was giving up good work." I don't know if I'm repeating it right, but it didn't sound like a compliment. At first she wasn't threatened by Nimi, but when Matt told her not to pick the tomatoes because they weren't ripe, that really woke her up.

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I told myself I was going to stop analysing this movie, but I keep noticing things. When Nimi first visits the villa to assess landscaping it, she has this smile on her face when she sees its unkempt state. Then once Matthew comes out to talk to her he says "oh the garden, it's a mess." It further shows how it was symbolic of his life. When Nimi saw the untended garden, she saw the possibilities of what it could become. Matt's life was a mess, but in the end she beautified it.

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After Nimi finished the garden and things started to grow, have you ever wondered why Matthew stay in it rather than his big mansion?





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Probably because it was the one place where he found the peace and intimacy he craved. Maybe it was the one place where he could sleep and find inner rest. That is part of our duty as women in regard to our men. Providing an inner and outer sanctem (if I'm spelling that right) for them. This is what Nimi did with the garden house. Not like Jenny, who wanted to take his fruit and sit it on a window sill. The mansion was beautiful yet in many ways empty.

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In the scene where Nimi's mother returns home after her trip, and Nimi and Matthew had slept together in Nimi's room. On entering the house she notices the plant near the door has a bloom. I wondered at the significance of her concerned look on noticing this. I now believe that this was an indication that Nimi may be having an affair with Matthew, to her mother and she senses this due to the blooming plant. Is this possible.

BM

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I've never known it in real life! In the context of the film though, it is symbolic in the way you think.

No comment, but don't quote me!

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As much as I love this movie, I think it's a little heavy handed in the symbolism department. I mean, here we have a woman who designs gardens. She is tending property for a man named 'Field.' His property is named Eden!! He tells her that Eve was tempted by a tomato. Nimi plants tomatoes. Jenny rips the tomatoes off the vine in an obviously symbolic attempt to take temptation out of Matthew's way, while throwing Nimi a look of daggers and saying 'shouldn't waste time on the weaker strain'.

Obviously, Matthew and Nimi will end up together. I just wish the writer had spent more time developing the reasons why Matthew and Nimi are into each other so much. She could have also made the lines less repetitive.

Although I think getting hammered over the head with all the symbolisms was a little distracting, I did enjoy the flick.




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