MovieChat Forums > Aimée & Jaguar (1999) Discussion > On Lilly's birthday night

On Lilly's birthday night


Lilly saw Felice and Ilse were kissing, and then she walked back when someone was to call for the attention. In the end of the party she asked Felice the question about love and wanted her so much that Felice told her to stop. Was it because Lilly was jealous? Even after Felice's capture, when talking with Ilse Lilly just wanted know whether Felice slep with Ilse again. Te English translation said, "Did she sleep with you again?" Why "again"? After Lilly and Felice met?

Another dump question: Why did Ilse get upset when Felice said, "Here's to the Germans ... You'll all destroy yourselves."

I like this movie very much. I got the DVD yesterday and then watched them twice (plus jumping to ceterain chapters) last night. The DVD I bought is from UK and the vedio quality isn't good, though it is cheapter than Amazon (US) or its marketplace.

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Yes, my take on it is that Lilly loved Felice very deeply and was jealous of Felice's old lover Ilse. I think "again" refers to the time when Felice and Lilly became a couple. I don't remember exactly which German word was used in this dialog. It's been a while since I watched the movie and some of the details got blurry, like the second question you asked.

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I guess it was Klärchen (the blonde one who was washing her underwear in the rest room) who said "The most honest people in the world!", after Felice said "Here's to the Germans!"
Felice probably meant, by saying "You will all destroy yourselves" that they should keep their cool, because their nervous, frightened behaviour could get them in trouble (ie make people suspicious about the girls).

Brilliant film!

I think I must have one of those faces you can't help believing.

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at the scene on the bed, lilly asked felice if she loved her. felice said yes, i do right now. but quickly withdrew her statement when lilly got too frisky with her because of her position in the relationship and the state of the country. felice was at risk of being exposed, captured and killed on a daily basis but she wants desperately to live her life and to love. felice loves lilly but in the face of so much opposition it's hard to stay true. it isn't until after felice confesses to lilly that she is jewish that things get better between them but sadly it's too late.

lilly asked ilse if she had slept with felice after lilly and felice had become a couple. since lilly had seen felice and ilse make out on her birthday. she suspected they might still be emotionally and/or physically tied. lilly was incredibly possessive but that's understandable. this is why lilly even goes to the extent of visiting felice at the concentration camp.

felice said "here's to the germans - you'll all destroy yourselves" because she forsaw that they would be their own end, their ideology was too arrogant to survive. also they were amidst members of the nazi army and government so that just wasn't a smart thing to say.

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[deleted]

In the movie, Ilse (who is actually Inge in the book) got upset at the statement
that Felice made because she herself is German and she felt that it was an insensitive and generalized attack on all Germans, even "good Germans" such as herself and she took it personally. HOWEVER...the scene in the movie never really happened, and Felice didn't actually say that statement in real life, according to the book.

The bedroom scene when Lilly initiates affection to Felice: Felice tells her to stop because she needs to keep her head focused and not allow things to move too fast; she has to be in control because she has to keep an emotional distance between herself and Lilly due to her uncertain existence and the fact that Lilly does not yet know Felice is Jewish. For these reasons, she can't fully allow a love with Lilly that she so desires. That's why later in the movie when Felice tells Lilly she is Jewish that she says she has "tried not to love" Lilly.

In the book, there was no scene where Lilly asks Ilse (real life Inge) if she slept with Felice again. As a matter of fact, after Felice was arrested, she turned down a visit from Inge when she was locked in the Jewish Hospital Collection Camp. I respect the director of this wonderful film, and the film itself is a masterpiece of life and emotional intelligence; but i do feel that it is not quite the full story of this subject because certain nuances were misunderstood, i think, by the director due to the fact that the book's author, Erica Fischer, being Jewish herself, wrote the story seemingly with a predjudicial axe to grind, writing a scathing and (i feel) inappropriate (Epilogue) against Lilly Wust. She stated that she didn't think that Felice would have stayed with Lilly if she had survived the war.

The author, in her slanted view of Lilly, also completely misunderstands a poem that Lilly wrote to Felice in the heartbreaking days after the war when Felice is missing. In chapter 8, a poem titled NEVER!, Lilly still waits in vain for Felice to return, 6 months after the war and deep down she knows Felice is dead, but she survives by keeping herself in denial, even going as far as wondering if Felice has left her. At the end of her poem, however, she tells herself that she knows the answer of whether Felice has left her - it is that "while alive you would never leave me!" Only in death would Felice ever leave her. Lilly writes this truth inside herself, but denies it at the same time because she doesn't want to stop hoping Felice is alive.

The author seems to have taken this poem to mean that Lilly was acknowledging that she knew Felice would leave her and Fischer called the poem "eerie". Inexplicable logic.

Toward the end of the book, Lilly acknowledges culpability in not protecting Felice more, "i'm guilty as well, somehow" - not quite the twisted psychological bend that the author applies to Lilly, claiming that Lilly is secretly grateful that she didn't have to suffer Felice eventually leaving her and that she has spent a lifetime in penance for feeling this way. Are you kidding me???

All i can say is that one only need read Felice and Lilly's love letters and poetry to one another and there's no doubt that these two people were in love - through all their flaws, through good or bad, through a difficult time in a chaotic but sometimes beautiful world, which they seemed to find some small part of...for a little while.

"as long as there is love, nothing can stand against us for long."

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I agree with the Ilse statement. I can only tell from the movie since I haven't read the book... yet. But I understand it as that Ilse is not jewish, and thusfar she was offended on the "You'll all destroy yourself" comment.

And Ilse did not need to leave germany, either. She was saying: "Klärchen, Fritz. YOUR train!"

So, I guess she wasn't jewish, but the nazi would've searched for her anyways, since she was a lesbian. So, she was not that safe, either. (Still talking about the movie, not the book)

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Excellent information, thank you!

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To the poster who wanted to know the exact wording in the German dialogue: She asked: "Hat sie noch mit dir geschlafen" which can be translated as: "Did she still sleep with you" [when I was with her] or "Was she still sleeping with you"…Elderly Ilse does not answer, and so it is left to us.

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Rosary,

Thanks, but I'm afraid the person you aimed your message at will not (necessarily) see your message, as it seems you clicked on "Reply" next to my name instead. If you'd clicked on "Reply" at the relevant post, then that person will be notified of your message.

Confusion easily happens when the threads are viewed in "flat" or "inline" mode. Safest to use the "nest" option near the top of the page.

And yes, your German is very correct!

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i must have missed something, i keep seeing posts where Ilse & Felice were kissing or making love or whatever but i didn't see anything like this, maybe i missed this or only in certain versions? but then again, i prob just missed it cuz i did hear at the end where she asked her if she slept with her again

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