Wow, I was surprised I got response as well, seeing as how sparse posts are on this board. If you, AsiNisiMasa, read this I would definitely like to combine brainpower and figure out more about this film because very little is written about it and I feel it is just as complex as Inception.
Something about the table shaking I feel induces hypnosis because as soon as that happened she suddenly knew something. This links in later in the film with the detective guarding Mamiya seemed to get hypnotized by all the things shaking before the escape.
>The "X" on Sakuma's wall could have been a trigger for Takabe.
I was thinking more about this and I think someone has to put in the suggestion of the 'X'. Mamiya put it on the wall for the female doctor and one could imply he made the motion with his hand for the other victims. If that is the case then Takabe may have put the X in Sakuma's apartment. I may be going out on a limb here.
>4--I'm pretty sure Takabe killed the detective.
I may need to rethink this one. It was assumed by the other cops that Mamiya escaped and maybe they assumed he killed the detective since no one saw Takabe come or go.
Another thought is towards the beginning. I assumed that Takabe was first hypnotized from the flashing red lights of the traffic signal. From there he wandered to the tunnel where the very first victim took the lead pipe. Did the police find where the lead pipe came from exactly? How did he know to go there? Is there any significance of him then going to the roof of the building and looking out over the city? Or could that just be him wandering, much like his wife?
"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes!" --Roy Batty
Blade Runner
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KenMishima
12 years ago
I still think Mamiya killed the detective because at the end, he asks Takabe "Why did you allow me to escape?" He could've killed him with the chair or part of it that he was using to create the noise with earlier.
I don't think Takabe put the 'X' in Sakuma's apartment. It's possible that Sakuma himself put it there subconsciously, since he went to see Mamiya before that scene happens. Mamiya clearly left his influence over Sakuma. It's interesting to note that unlike all the other victims, the person that Sakuma killed was *himself*, not someone else. Perhaps him, being a psychologist, knew that things would get worse if he allowed himself to live, so he offed himself. Didn't he cut an 'X' into himself before he killed himself, though?
I don't think Takabe was ever hypnotized until he went to the abandoned building at the end. Mamiya drew the 'X' shape with his finger right before he got blasted by Takabe. If that wasn't enough, he then goes and listens to the recording in the building, the nonsensical words probably completed the ritual then.
Mamiya's previous attempts to hypnotize Takabe all proved ineffective, showing how strong Takabe truly was, and Mamiya himself states that he is amazed by this. This is also hinted at at the end because it's a bit clear that Takabe is the new "carrier" of this "disease", the new propagator of this dark ceremony. He somehow hypnotizes the waitress without even really talking to her or anything. Some think it was the smoke from his cigarette, and/or the fire from the burning area. This is possible because Takabe is never shown smoking at any point in the film before this final scene.
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AsaNisiMasa_63
10 years ago
Yeah, just rewatched again for the millionth time. This movie is very enigmatic w/o being pretentious or too ambiguous, but rather addicting instead. Kinda like an unsolvable Rubik's cube.
Last time I felt similarly was when I saw 2001 and that's a space film. Love this masterpiece nonetheless. Still clueless to my questions though and I have more. Most answers just leads to more speculation.
5. Who killed Takabe's wife? Was that even real or a fantasy? There's an X carved into her and she's being "wheeled" forward as if someone is pushing her.
6. What is the abandoned house (re: 4)?
7. Mamiya hypnotizes but when he calls Takabe 'amazing,' it appears he has the ability to control the weather (supernatural powers); I feel like there are many scenes in this movie that are just imaginations/hypnosis bits of the characters.
8. Still awaiting blu-ray. Are there any articles or interviews with Kurosawa aside from the one on the DVD about this movie? Not that he'd explain further but just wondering.
As an aspiring filmmaker, it's brilliant that someone can write a script and film it in a way that so tightly constructed and original.
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KenMishima
10 years ago
5. Who killed Takabe's wife? Was that even real or a fantasy? There's an X carved into her and she's being "wheeled" forward as if someone is pushing her.
I think Takabe himself might have done it. I don't know if her death is shown in the "full" version of the film (which has only been shown in screenings, apparently) or not, however. I guess she was being wheeled to an autopsy room or morgue.
6. What is the abandoned house (re: 4)?
I think that's where the late 19th century doctor who was practicing mesmerism as a treatment, who was shown in the footage that Sakuma presented to Takabe did his business at, hence Takabe finding his (the 19th century doctor's) picture as well as an old gramophone with the nonsensical ramblings on it.
7. Mamiya hypnotizes but when he calls Takabe 'amazing,' it appears he has the ability to control the weather (supernatural powers); I feel like there are many scenes in this movie that are just imaginations/hypnosis bits of the characters.
That's one of the great things about this film. I've watched it approximately 32942010 times and I always notice things I hadn't on prior viewings. Some of the film's mysteries are made clear once you simply come to understand them with some critical and open-ended thinking, but other things are left purposefully ambiguous without coming off as lazy or inept.
As for blu-ray, I think I saw a blu-ray release of this that was released in either South America or South Asia, no word yet on a stateside release, sadly.
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EllenRipley47
9 years ago
I only watched the film once, just now actually but I agree, re: Takabe killed his wife. As far as I remember, after he throws the raw meat he picks up a knife and goes off camera. Then we cut to them sitting in this weird looking car, surrounded by the sky. The whole coloring and set up of that scene is more fantasy/imagination than reality, imo. Then they arrive at the institute or hospital where he admits his wife. I don't think that's real, I think that's just his imagination.
The second time toward the end when he sits in that same car surrounded by the sky, he actually ends up at this abandoned institute. I think that's a clear indication that in reality he was going there the first time, too.
If I had to guess, it seems that he killed his wife and hid her body in this abandoned institute or house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Y-AG5BNiM
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KenMishima
9 years ago
Those are some very interesting observations. I always thought that the cable car scene (the scenes when they're surrounded by the sky) were merely depicting events that happened in the past, besides the second time he goes on it. Your explanation makes more sense, as it would explain how he was able to murder his wife and not get convicted of the murder.
The scene where he admitted her had to have been a dream or fantasy, because I doubt anyone inside killed her. The only one it could have been would've been the fat doctor who was with her at the start of the film. Perhaps he himself got hypnotized and "awakened" like the others did via her subconscious suggestion (remember the first scene in the movie where the table she's sitting at starts to oddly vibrate violently and she doesn't even realize it?) The doctor could have viewed her as a burden and then killed her, but we're not shown any evidence of that happening.
Actually thinking further on it, the scene where he admits her could've taken place before the film starts, and would explain why she was at that place to begin with. But if that's not true, then the fantasy thing still works and makes sense. I think he took her body to the abandoned building and then killed her, and made it seem like Mamiya did it. This way they could pin Mamiya as the murderer and Takabe could be seen as killing him in self-defense.
This explains why Takabe not only is clearly a free man at the end of the movie, but he's actually happy in his life now; he finishes he plate of food completely whereas earlier he barely ate half of it, and he's seen smoking for the first time. He was freed of the burdens in his life (taking care of his beloved mentally-ill wife, and then dealing with tracking down and finishing Mamiya), but the darker thing is that he is now the new propagator of the ritual, he's the one going around and awakening people. I think the smoke, fire, and ash from his burning cigarette is what triggered the waitress to go and kill her boss, as we see in the last frames of the movie.
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franzkabuki
9 years ago
Interesting - if Takabe indeed does induce the waitress to kill someone, he seems to be doing so pretty much unbeknownst to himself as he barely acknowledges the girl and doesn't even properly look at her.
"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan
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