So sam gets shot and it goes through his bullet proof jacket due to some lameness and he and Vincent go to the witch doctor where Sam tells his friend Vincent what to do, and Vincent does the opp.?!? Wtf is with that? How come the witch doctor just sits there like derppp...
shareThat wasn't the best-worded post, but I did intend to start a thread about the medical accuracy of De Niro's improv-surgery scene. I mean, when I watched it I couldn't help but wonder how plausable it was, medically speaking. As a layman, it seemed reasonable to me, but I was curious to see if anyone else had some thoughts on this.
shareThe bullet fragment didn't go through the vest. It went in the side, near above the velcro straps holding the front and back plates together.
Now, they didn't sterilize the scalpel or the wound (at least, not on-screen; I'd assume they sterilized them since they had alcohol there). There wasn't a lot of blood (I'd expect more, along with needing more gauze). But for the most part, I have no problem with the scene.
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Umm internet experts? These are level 1-3 vests aka SOFT armor. They do NOT have nor are the pad zones called "plates". And from watching the film its a level I or II vest their trying to portray but to me it looks so fake, like a crappy life jacket or some kind of winter vest. Sorry I have a technical nature and its my field of work with the NIJ. And all these films are so fake when it comes to vests. If you get hit by a round wearing a vest you will still sustain injuries enough that you won't be fighting back. Vest stop penetration not shock. Severe bruising, broken or fractured bones, internal bleeding and death can still occur with no penetration whatsoever of the vest. Only level IIIa - VI hard armor would prevent most of serious injuries but you will still injured and will get knocked down and be in no mood to fight back. Impact or velocity shock is brutal.
Nichole was here.
but you will still injured and will get knocked down
You might fall down, but you're not going to get knocked down by a bullet. That's basic physics.
Actually, the bullet DID indeed go through the vest. If you listen to the conversation, DeNiro says that the bullet was sprayed with teflon, the dude with the beard then asks "is that why it went through the vest?", and DeNiro says yes.
Also, they did somewhat try to sterilize the wound. DeNiro tells him to "douse it with alcohol", at which point they pour cognac into the wound.
Now, as to the plausibility of any of that (especially the penetration power of teflon "spray"), well, that's another story.
Based on the details given in the scene, it seems entirely plausible to me. DeNiro comments that it's "just below the surface". So it's just a matter of opening the skin up a bit and grabbing the bullet with forceps. When I was a teenager, I had to help my uncle pull out a load of bird shot pellets from his dog's flank. If I could manage it as a dumb-ass kid, when I really had know idea what I was doing, then I'd think a couple of seasoned mercenaries could manage it.
shareIf you were paying attention, you would have realized that he was not a doctor.
shareAs posted above, the bullet went between the front and back plates of the vest, not though them. Additionally, it was a ricochet, meaning it didn't hit him at full velocity. It was just under the surface of the skin: Sam points this out when touching his side. Because it hadn't penetrated deeply, there were no veins or arteries nicked, so the blood would only be from capillary punctures. The main amount of blood would indeed be when it was pulled out, as it would re-open the capillaries that had closed in the time from the shot to the removal.
..Joe
PS: One thing that did bother me was the "Teflon-sprayed" bullets. They wouldn't do anything, except keep from sticking to the pan when you cook them.
"PS: One thing that did bother me was the "Teflon-sprayed" bullets. They wouldn't do anything, except keep from sticking to the pan when you cook them."
It was back in the day of the 'evvvulll(tm) cop killing bullet' that can penetrate a flak vest due to it's teflon coating--at least that is what was said in the news; of course the news DID leave out the part about said bullets' penetrating power was because they were made of harder material than lead & also had a more powerful powder-load which resulted in a higher velocity. The teflon was to help keep the rifling from being 'worn out' unduly.
I have a Bren Ten 10mm pistol, and I also have 4 boxes of Black Talon 10mm ammo for carry rounds for it. The Black Talon was the dreaded "Cop Killer" bullet that raised so much of a fuss that Winchester took it off the market. Sorta: they changed the cartridge case to ordinary brass from Stainless Steel and took the Teflon coating (simply added to ease it down the barrel) off the bullet and re-released them otherwise unchanged as the Ranger SXT- a bullet you can still buy today. The reason I bought them is because the stainless casing and black bullet matched the black frame/stainless slide of the Bren- accessorizing is everything! :-)
The good news is that I no longer carry the Black Talons: I paid $19.95 for each box, and I can now sell them for about $150.00/box. Ain't no way I'm shooting those!
The Black Talon will not penetrate any body armor: it's a hollow point, designed to mushroom on impact, to create the large shock cavity in the wound. It pretty much just bounces off Kevlar...
..Joe
Ranger SXT: Same eXact Thing
shareCould the teflon have made it more difficult to grab the bullet with tongs and that is the reason why he is disgusted with the shooter? That he sprayed the bullets with teflon to make it harder to give them medical condition if they survived the initial gun battle.
shareNo. You want to make life difficult for the wounded? Rub garlic all over the bullet and put it in the hollow point: garlic is toxic if inside the body, and will kill.
..Joe
The rubbing garlic on bullets idea is sort of bogus - you would need to get 18 grams of garlic into the victim's body for it to have toxic effects. Excrement would be far better - a combination of rat turds and buckshot fired through a shotgun would be more effective. Check out The Straight Dope web site about garlic tainted bullets.
"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)
you gotta keep in mind: If indeed Sam was ex CIA, they train their field agents to do surgery in the field.
Sam was talking Vincent through it, Luckily, the wound was basically superficial.
I Get It: You Want Me To Actually Give A Damn..
Don't you get it?
This movie is titled Ronin for nothing. The characters are supposed to portray ronins, working as hired hands until they avenge the death of their master. After completing vengeance, they all commit sepuku, ritual suicide with a sword. De Nero in a way committed sepuku by performing a surgery on his belly. It was no coincidence that it was the French old man who tells Sam about ronins and sepuku.
Actually, that story applies only to the legendary 47 Ronin. In general, ronin were masterless samurai who became hired enforcers or mercenaries. As the Japanese feudal system became more and more violent, masters were killed with alarming regularity because they went to war with their neighbors for one reason or another.
In this movie, all of the mercenaries are masterless samurai. Sam was CIA, Vincent was part of one of the French agencies (most likely DGSE), Spence claimed to be SAS, Larry was a driver for someone with pull and Gregor was either former KGB or East German Stasi.
Even Seamus and Deidre are rogue operatives on the outs with the IRA.
None of them commits sepuku because they have nothing to avenge. Unlike the 47 Ronin, they did not work for one master who was killed on their watch.
Yes, no character commits sepuku, Sam included. But his removing a bullet on the right side of the belly is symbolic of the sepuku ritual, because he had to have the right side of the belly cut with a knife reminds one of sepuku.
The writer was drawing parallels between Ronins and the characters in the movie.
I'm pretty sure it was the left side.
shareThat's not really reminding of seppuku, it's a life-saving operation. Seppuku is killing oneself (for moral reasons too). That both involve belly cutting is just a detail (besides, the actual belly cutting in Sam's case had been performed by the bullet, the bullet removal was closing off an already existing wound).
there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above her shoulder
The reason the "doctor" didn't do much, is that he's NOT a doctor. On the way there, DeNiro asks if Vincent can get him to a doctor, or veterinarian's office so they can "boost" what THEY need to patch him up, and Vincent says "I can do better". Which would seem to imply that the dude with the beard is neither.
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