Just watched Force Awakens, and don't see how it is 2.2 points higher - Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) Discussion

[–] alexcregan1998 8 years ago

The Prequels have good Backstory, awful execution in its actual story though.

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How is TFA any better execution? Effects are nothing special, acting is good but not great either, dialogue is weak and the cinematography looks very TV.

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[–] allanrocks 8 years ago

You must be watching some amazing tv. TFA is beautifully shot.

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[–] shwonsh 8 years ago

When you have 2 people in one shot you have focus issues.

Something Revenge of the Sith pulled off with no blurry in the shot.

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[–] sebrofg 8 years ago

The acting in the prequels alone is just embarrassing and the script is shoddy at best and there is some decent actors as well

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[–] MisterKorman 8 years ago

I never noticed any focusing issues.

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[–] maxx816 8 years ago

When you have 2 people in one shot you have focus issues. Something Revenge of the Sith pulled off with no blurry in the shot.

Oh is that right Francis? Hey I really loved your work on The Godfather and your other great films as well. Oh you're not Francis Ford Coppola? You don't even have any directing experience? You've never made or even worked on a film in your life, you say? That's what I thought! Now sit down and stfu with your bullsh*t "focus issues"!!!!!

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[–] doctorcrimedog 7 years ago

You've never made or even worked on a film in your life, you say?

Actually, no, he didn't say that. You did, which makes it a meaningless strawman argument. It's a poor argument aside from that, like saying that one has to be a car manufacturer to complain about bad performance, or that you have to have your own band to know that Nickelback sucks. It also, in case you didn't think it through, makes your own opinion of the film equally invalid unless you are yourself a director. I'm guessing that's not what you meant to imply, was it? But how is it any different, just because you liked the film and he didn't?

-There is no such word as "alot."

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[–] Kylo_Binks 8 years ago

That's not an "issue". That's just standard for camera lenses. It's called depth of field.

Meesa will finish what youssa started

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[–] FX_Lord 7 years ago

It's called a 'rack-focus'. You're only supposed to focus on one character at a time, it is intentional.

It's a film made in the classic style of the 70s with some of the original lenses from the first film, back when everything wasn't made to look in perfect focus like every frame of a videogame.

Scenes were built impressionistically cutting shots together with a large depth-of-field (selective focus). I happen to consider the use of telephoto lenses, instead of always using wide angle lenses where everything is in focus (Hardcore Henry), far more attractive to look at. I'm sorry if you disagree.

Play a lot of videogames?

"I don't reckon I got no reason to kill nobody."

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[–] alexcregan1998 8 years ago

The Force Awakens is better executed because I actually cared about what was happening. The Acting was leaps and bounds above the Prequels don't even start with that.

Tiniest Example. When Finn was getting stabbed through the shoulder with Kylo Ren's Lightsaber Hilt I was wincing and feeling the pain he must be going through, as opposed to the Prequels where a main character gets stabbed full on in the stomach and I barely even flinched. Anakin gets burned alive. Made me go "oh,that looks painful." Nothing more. Didn't even wince at that. There was no connection between the audience and the characters in the Prequels.

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[–] calamb 8 years ago

If you truly believe that The Phantom Menace is on-par with The Force Awakens in any technical aspect...then you know nothing about film. That, or you don't pay attention.

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[–] BluthSitwell 8 years ago

True, this should end the thread really.

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[–] Lilporkchop420 8 years ago

Great points op and I agree this film took more risks . The pod racing scene is something unique

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[–] elgaroo 8 years ago

The pod racing scene is the Endor speeder bike chase drawn out WAY too long.....P Risks are not inherently "good", especially when they are poor fits, conceptually, and in execution. George Lucas having a go at just tossing in whatever random passing interest he had at the time in the hopes of once again stumbling into genius was just uninhibited laziness annyone could have done better, which I believe strongly posterity will precisely assess of the latest trilogy, etc.

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[–] gerhajdu 8 years ago

To each his own. I was on edge during the scene. You have a short attention span or what?

"But they knew they f**ed up." James Rolfe as AVGN

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[–] mrdjx 8 years ago

Umm.. by itself the scene is technically a well directed piece of work and a showcase for ILM's abilities. BUT the scene really doesn't have a place in the film, since the time taken to set it up is disproportionate to the overall stakes of the films narrative-in this case I'm referring to the fact that Qui Gon, Obi-Wan and Amidala ultimate goals are to reach Coruscant so they can inform the Senate of the blockade and prevent the Citizens of Naboo from dying. Part of the problem is that the threads in the Podrace plot do not get revisited once the scene is over. Sebulba is set up as an antagonist, then discarded from the storyline once he loses. Watto is only reintroduced briefly in Episode 2 to give exposition on the whereabouts.

The next point is one that I believe is one of the most critical flaws in the PT trilogy. That is, a substantial amount of screen time is given to Qui-Gon and his relationship with Anakin. As we all know, at the end of the film Qui-Gon dies, leaving Obi-Wan to train Anakin. However Qui-Gon's relationship with Anakin does not get revisited in Episode 2 or 3 and does not play much of a role in Anakins development. This results in Anakin and Obi Wan becoming friends offscreen, and the first time we see them as having any kind of relationship is in Episode 2, where its clear that they seem to hate eachother. Since we never see them as friends, the emotional punch behind Anakins betrayal is simply non-existent.

If George Lucas had swapped Qui-Gon with Obi Wan in the Podrace plot, the PT trilogy would've have been far better received, as the audience would've seen the development of a relationship which would become a key plotline in the Star Wars Saga.

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[–] soundoflight 8 years ago

I agree. While this movie is incredibly flawed, there were moments of "Star Wars" in it, particularly the epic final battle with Darth Maul. I FELT something during those scenes. I was on the edge of my seat. The Force Awakens did not evoke this feeling even once.

I consider the Phantom Menace to be a slightly superior film to the force awakens (though I think the second and third prequels are gutter trash).

Ranked:
Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, A New Hope, The Phantom Menace, The Force Awakens, Revenge of the Sith, Attack of the Clones

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[–] dellaroccokc 8 years ago

Can you describe what you "felt" during the lightsaber battle against the guy you know nothing about and the two Jedi's you can't relate to? Was it the ninja moves and flipping that put you on the edge of your seat as you shoveled popcorn into your face? I admit Duel of the Fates is a good score but literally thats the only thing that made it interesting.

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[–] AlGranthamMusic 8 years ago

I rewatched Phantom Menace for the first time today since I saw it in the theatre, and I have to agree that the lightsaber duel is excellent. I "Felt" something as well. Could be the score, could be the fact that we're watching a jedi knight engaged in an epic fight alongside his apprentice, and perishing. That's some serious *beep* Incorporating the timed force-fields towards the end was a stroke of genius too.

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[–] seanericmathews 8 years ago

I too watched it again for the first time in over a decade. And it was just as bad now as it was then. It is an abomination.

Two headed NASCAR alien commentator.

That is all.

Really though... Lucas relied too much on CGI and catering to all a different audience. He lost touch with what made the originals so great.

Yeah, TFA wasn't perfect. And yeah, they might have been playing to the fans. But Ill take that over the tripe that Lucas gave us in the prequels. You can take your trade federation and shove it.

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[–] soundoflight 8 years ago

I could relate to the Jedis... In fact, those are are probably the only two characters in the entire prequel trilogy that are relatable, both played by excellent actors. Liam Neeson's Jedi character was quite likable, and you care when he dies. And note that he dies in such a way that it's a bit gut wrenching. Compare this to the force awakens where Han Solo is killed in such a cheap way you don't really feel anything.

Darth Maul was a decent villain. At least he retained an aura of mystery and evil about him. Imagine if Darth Maul took off his "mask" and a 16 year old nerd was underneath. It would completely ruin the effect. That's what The Force Awakens gave us.And as you mention, the score was gripping. Nothing of the sort came out of The Force Awakens.

Overall, I think the duel with Darth Maul is the best thing the prequel trilogy produced, and is better than anything found in The Force Awakens as well.

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[–] AlGranthamMusic 8 years ago

Just finished re-watching the entire prequels trilogy, and was so much more impressed with it than I remember. The Darth Maul duel in the Phantom Menace definitely stands out as a great scene. In fact I would consider it one of the most memorable across the entire prequel trilogy. Nothing much happens in Attack of the clones, but there's some excellent stuff in Revenge of the Sith.

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[–] alexcregan1998 8 years ago

God you're so wrong it's a bit laughable. How can you not see the wide Valley separating The Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens in Quality? The onky thing I can think of that The Phantom Menace has above The Force Awakens is it's Film Score, even though I love Rey's Theme and every time it comes up it gives me goosebumps,the rest was very forgettable indeed. The Phantom Menace on the other hand I seem to know every single track, probably because of my obsession with Battlefront 2 as a younger child :)
So there you go, the Original Score for The Phantom Menace that's the only thing I'd give it over The Force Awakens.

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[–] apriloish 7 years ago

I recently watched rogue one an have now scene every film in the franchise im fine with what ever film someone prefers but i have to be honest the force awakens not perfect but is miles better then phantom meance.Heres my opinion of these films star wars is a great fantasy space film empire strikes back is a masterpiece an easily the best return of the jedi is a great ending suffers from to much repeat of the other two but is a great finale none the less the prequels phantom meance is easily the worst star wars film its crap attack of the clones is ok its a ok action film its a time waster not bad just ok the actor playing vader is ok because vader is simply a teen so he has to whiny a bit the problem is to much cgi an the love scenes are so bad written. Revenge of the sith again not great but pretty good an easily the best prequel i like this one.Force awakens is a great sequel that set up the new trilogy suffers from to much of a retread but the action is great an its harrison fords best performance rogue one is really good but the story is bland an the main character weak.The animated kids film clone wars is also garbage

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[–] krislcherry 8 years ago

Can you type SPOILER ALERT before ruining a big death like that? This is a Phantom Menace board. Not everyone had seen the new one.

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[–] dellaroccokc 8 years ago

Are you serious? The movies been out for 6 weeks when you posted that. Do they not have theaters where you live?

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[–] aillas55 8 years ago

It was still the only one of the four battles at the end of TPM that had any tension. Perhaps because the three protagonists are actually real.

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[–] AmbienWineDiet 8 years ago

this comment for the win... haha LOLd so hard

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[–] farfolomew 8 years ago

Wow, your post echos my sentiments almost to a T! While the TPM is considerably flawed in many of its attritubes, I loved certain elements of it: the music, the new planets, species introduced, and mainly the Darth Maul fight scene at the end. Say what you will about the Darth Maul character himself, but that fight scene was between those 3 was epic, and I dare say even better than Luke vs Vader in ESB.

Your ranking of movies is exactly as I would have them too (although for me, ROTJ and ESB are nearly identical in ranking; there's no clear winner for me between those two). I'm biased a bit on ROTJ because I grew up with it, but I objectively look at the Ewoks today, and I sincerely think they're not a stain on the movie. The way Han despises them at first, then learns to tolerate them, as well as C3PO's promotion of a deity status is just pure script gold! Not to mention the epic space battle scene. And then ROTJ's ending with Vader's final act of goodness, the unveiling of his helmet, and the cremation scene. THAT was great cinema. ROTJ is seriously underrated and anyone who thinks TFA is better than it is delusional.

As for ESB, well that needs no defending for it's ranking :)

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[–] Day_ImFivebyFive 7 years ago

RotS is far and away the best of the prequels IMO. I get scared even thinking of watching that film, cause it has so many dramatic moments. Anakin going dark has to happen, but it's so gut wrenching to watch we can't take our eyes off screen. Mace confronting Palpatine is also bone chilling because we know what's gonna happen. Ah, it's a great film to rewatch, especially certain scenes.

The Phantom Menace has one good scene (two if you count the pod racing scene, though I don't since it's not important to the overall plot as others have mentioned). Attack of the Clones is better than TPM overall with a more interesting plot but has no memorable scenes.

This is all my opinion of course.

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[–] ira_gaines 8 years ago

I think the split among fans is really based around what attracts you to the original trilogy. Some people are really attached to the characters of the OT. Others are more attached to the world. I would fit in the 2nd catergory. I never found the characters in the OT super interesting. They're engaging enough to carry the plot but that's it. I was always more interested in the world, and Lucas's inventiveness that created it.

If you like the OT for the characters, then you'll probably love TFA and hate the prequels. If you like the OT for the "world", then you'll probably hate TFA but be more accepting of the prequels.

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[–] bishop-69757 8 years ago

TFA 7/10 far from perfect but still pretty good

PM 4/10 Had some cool characters and moments but just too much garbage
9 year old Anakin
Pod Race
Jar Jar Binks having such a big role
cringe worthy lines

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] instant_change 8 years ago

OP, the same thought occurred to me - almost along the lines of "How is TPM any worse than this?" TPM gets a lot of hate, I'm guessing mostly because of the kid, midichlorians and Jar-Jar, but at least Lucas tried to create brand new worlds and stories with the prequels - in my opinion, TFA doesn't really have any.

The prequels suffer mainly from video-game-like CGI overload and stiff acting which is a combination of poor actors (Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen), too much green screen and probably Lucas' directing.

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[–] csm-11 8 years ago

I we score these movies like Olympic gymnastics, TPM gets a 9 for degree of difficulty and a 3 in execution. TFA gets a 4 for degree of difficulty and a 7 in execution.

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[–] farfolomew 8 years ago

I like that scoring! At least we know TPM thinks it can pull off a 9, even if it lands no where close. TFA has no aspiration to be anything more than a 4.

--- MY RATINGS ---
2001,F.Gump,S.Shank,A.Beauty:10 | TDK:6 | Avengers:4

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