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'I saw you meet a man on the assembly line; what'd he say?'


Allegra says this twice to Jude Law: "I saw you meet a man on the assembly line; what'd he say?"

She says it like she's stuck in a loop - as if she's one of the game characters and not a real person. Yet Jude accepts this and continues playing the game as usual.

At this point, isn't that a clear indication that the Allegra he's talking to (and then immediately goes to lunch with) isn't a real player, but is simply a game drone?

If I'm way off, somebody please clue me in. Thank you.

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Allegra explained in the movie:

"There are things that have to be said to advance the plot and establish the characters, and those things get said whether you want to say them or not. Don't fight it."

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Sure. But that doesn't explain why she said it TWICE. Like she was stuck in a computer loop.

Jude Law felt compelled to say things, and he said them - he didn't fight it. But he only said them once each.

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I assumed it was a hint that Allegra was a game character and Jude Law was still in a game at the end.

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Exactly, they were said twice. Proves the point.

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jesus...

the point he is making is that the non playing characters were the ones that got stuck in a loop. Its said earlier by Allegra the ones who repeat as if in as loop are just written programs. When Allegra gets stuck and repeats the line and freezes its a huge hint that she is just a written computer part in the program and not an actual live 'player'

This is especially interesting as the Chinese waiter and others are also shown at the end to be played by real life people. surely the human players would not freeze and stutter - its perhaps a big ambiguous clue that Ted is the only real player of the game. Or perhaps a clue that none of them have any free will in the game at all. Either way as OP points out, it is a clear contradiction.

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Grasshopper...

as Allegra said earlier there are things that have to be said to advance the plot and establish the characters. The game modality does not differentiate between real and and unreal characters. This is not a contradiction but a blending phenomena, and an intrinsic part of the game continuum.

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It's not just the fact that Allegra repeats the line but the way in which she repeats it.

In that particular scene, her behaviour is very robotic & looks exactly similar to that of a Non-Player Character in a computer game.

She doesn't return Pikul's smile or his greeting. She looks at him without any emotion & then mechanically says her line. She doesn't respond to Pikul's comment about the Trout Farm, but just looks at him in a slightly confused way. She drops the package she's holding into the basket, then picks it up again robotically, and then repeats the exact same words, again without any emotion.

It was very clear to me in that particular scene that she wasn't human.

Pikul also repeats lines in a couple of places but he either changes his words each time, or at least puts some emotion into what he's saying.

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One of previous posters already pointed out that other "game characters" appear in last scene, so this reasoning applies to them as well.

She might or might not have been game character there--maybe she faked the loop just to mess with Pikul. There's no way to know or prove one way or another and it's besides the point anyway.

I think this was meant to be just a pretty obvious hint for those who hadn't started wondering themselves by then--"how do I know who's a game character and who's not? How do I know when I've really quit the game?"

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[deleted]

I think its reasonable that the real players knowing they have to utter key phrases might mechanically repeat themselves just in case.

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[deleted]

I agree with this line of reasoning. It was planted there to make us doubt. But why did she seem completely human the whole time and not robotic? Because the director did not want to make it totally obvious. You might think in that case that it's just sloppy writing but actually it makes a lot of sense.

If you have ever played a game before you will know there are varying degrees of artificial intelligence. A bartender that simply relays information will not need the same amount of crafting that say an enemy might, or especially a companion. A companion requires the highest level of sophistication because you spend all your time around them. However, they do occasionally glitch which is what might have happened here. Think back to all the characters that did not glitch, and there were quite a few. Nader, the glitchiest character was also a mere messenger non player character.

I just finished watching this movie and my first impression is that they were in the real world. But after considering it carefully, there are a couple problems with that theory. The aforementioned line, coupled with the fact that she acted like a robot for few moments there but then was back to normal. So, if they really were in the real world at the end, why did she glitch. There was no smirk and no indication she was just "messing with him". Not to mention, it's not really in her personality to do so.

The other thing I got to thinking about was the whole transCendeZ experience. If it drew from the characters own thoughts to form stories and ideas, then isn't it more similar to a dream than a game? That would certainly account for all the disjointed weirdness. But if that is the case, why would there be scripting at all? In my dreams character's do strange things but they do not glitch like robots. Of course there is a possibility that the person's inside unconsciously influenced the game knowing it was a game and so that's why the characters acted like game characters but that doesn't quite fit either.

Another plausible explanation is the one somebody mentioned already. Jude Law is playing this game by himself and JJL is his companion in the game. The game is a first look at virtual reality simulations. Still there are problems with this theory as well, like why the anti-game and anti-technology theme. Why would the objective be to kill game devs, isn't that a bit masochistic. Nouresh even said the game was disturbing and confusing, kind of as if to say, this game needs some work before it's ready for public consumption. That and the nod to there being anti-game sentiment among the test group participants. There really aren't any perfect answers that I can see, just a lot of interesting questions.

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[deleted]

She said it twice because Pikul's first answer wasn't proper and didn't advance the game.

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But if she was real she wouldn't have asked twice.

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When he first says a necessary line "We're here that's all that matters" he has to repeat it soon after to progress the game. She's just doing the same thing.

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When Allegra gets stuck and repeats the line and freezes its a huge hint that she is just a written computer part in the program and not an actual live 'player'


Correct. 😁

When he first says a necessary line "We're here that's all that matters" he has to repeat it soon after to progress the game. She's just doing the same thing.


Wrong. He had to repeat it, but differently (that's the important part to notice) so that the program (Nader) would "hear" him. Nader didn't hear him the first time because Pikul didn't say it in a way he could understand it. Simple programs are only programmed to hear certain things, not figure things out for themselves. Pikul had to tweak the line to get the program to recognize the input. He didn't just mechanically repeat it over and over with a blank stare. He stopped to wonder in between the 2 line deliveries why it didn't work, what to change, and then changed a few things. He is human and thus acting human, not like a robot.

Allegra was acting like a robot in the scene we're discussing. She didn't think to change the line the second time she delivered it, to say it a different way to get Pikul to understand her. She mechanically repeated the line with NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER. That's your hint.

The reason Pikul had to repeat that line was because he hadn't said it the right way - either A) he had to include the program (Nader's) name, which he did the second time, to get the program to "acknowledge" the line and for it to respond + move on with the game, or B), like Allegra said, Pikul was just starting to feel/act like his "character" at that point so he had to repeat his first line to remember what should come afterward, or C) both. He repeated but changed his line.

That's the difference. In the trout factory scene, she didn't change her line at all. Her movements, dialogue AND facial expressions / body language were all exactly the same. Like a program.

Remember, he didn't say his character's first line 2x the same way. The second time, he both added the name of the program he was speaking to AND continued into another line he was supposed to say.

These are two important changes, showing he's a human learning to act within his character. He is not a computer program. She showed no such human-like characteristics, simply repeated her line because he (again) hadn't said his character's line the right way. When he said it again, he added her name, etc.

Just like he had to do with the other program, Nader, last time he didn't get the line right.

I don't know throughout the movie when else she is decidedly human or program, but in this scene, IMO, she's obviously a program. We were told in the scene with Nader (not long before this scene) that "if someone repeats their line mechanically, and you have to say the right line to get them to get on with it / respond, they're a program and need to hear it the right way." Humans don't need that exact input to be able to respond; they can deal with tiny differences. She is NOT human in this scene.

Ironic / funny / brilliant part is that she told him that.

If that didn't make sense (very simple idea I was trying to explain, somehow it came out all complicated) feel free to ask and I will try again. But she's definitely a program in this scene. 100%

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I don't know throughout the movie when else she is decidedly human or program, but in this scene, IMO, she's obviously a program. We were told in the scene with Nader (not long before this scene) that "if someone repeats their line mechanically, and you have to say the right line to get them to get on with it / respond, they're a program and need to hear it the right way." Humans don't need that exact input to be able to respond; they can deal with tiny differences. She is NOT human in this scene.


In the game the players are sometimes "programmed." Cut scenes, if you will. Pikul and Allegra have sex because they are programmed to.

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Not really. That's what they say within the game, but outside the game they are still attracted to each other when they play tranCendenZ. So, it's just their natural tendencies popping up within the game, rather than programming as such.

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This was subtle- I saw it on freeview tv so couldnt rewind. But I noticed that she sort of humoured what he said and then just started again and repeated her plot development 'line' cos he wasnt taking the game seriously.

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[deleted]

Some characters pretty much always act woodenly, like game characters. D'Arcy Nader so much so that Geller and Pikul even comment on it, but Yevgeni Nourish and Hugo Carlaw are also pretty unanimated, there was something particularly game character about the way Nourish said "breeding pools" twice. Geller acting like a game character at that point did strike me, though, because normally her performance in the film is more natural.

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I'm inclined to think that this was neither an attempt at misdirection, nor an indication of her status as a program but rather a subtle moment designed to upset our acceptance of the nature of the characters.

I believe the whole point of the repeated line was indeed to raise the questions brought up in this thread but not to provide an answer to them. If we know the answer then we have definitive proof of what is real and what is not, which is contrary to the point of the movie. The film questions the nature of reality and the horrors of potential deception and uncertainty and this is just another neat example of Cronenberg's ability to draw us into the uncomfortable anxiety felt by the characters as they lose grip not only on reality but also the idea that reality is static and defined.

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a subtle moment designed to upset our acceptance of the nature of the characters


Well it certainly achieved that. When she repeated that line I was convinced that Ted was now talking to a fake/replacement/artificial Allegra, accepting of course that none of them were really 'real' in the first place. (Or were they?)

I like cake! I LIKE CAKE!!!!

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