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All the Plot Questions Answered -- except one

posted 19 years ago by overpaid
87 replies | jump to latest

Since no one in the below threads seems to have pulled it all together, here -- based on repeated viewings of the unrated DVD -- is what happened:

- Suzie (Neve Campbell), a poor, underachieving genius, is pissed off at her High School teacher Mr. Lombardo (Matt Dillon) for ignoring her calls when she got busted and for sleeping with another student. She is also pissed off at a corrupt Detective (Kevin Bacon) for killing her friend Davy. She is also pissed off at fellow student (and fellow bi-sexual) Kelly Van Ryan for being rich, for fsleeping with Mr. Lombardo, and for looking like Denise Richards. Suzie comes up with an extremely devious and manipulative scheme which will allow her to get revenge on those she is pissed off at and leave her rich, as well as legally dead so no one will be looking for her.

Suzie is the ONLY one who is really in on every aspect of the scheme (except for the Lawyer - see below). All the others (Lombardo, Kelly, the Detective) only THINK they are.

- Suzie blackmails Lombardo in order to get the ball rolling. As far as Lombardo is concerned, he and Suzie are plotting to use Kelly Van Ryan to scam Kelly's mother out of millions, fake Suzie's death, use the Detective to frame Kelly for "killing" Suzie, get rid of the Detective, then run off together with the money.

- Kelly is brought into the scheme by Lombardo. As far as Kelly is concerned, she and Lombardo are plotting to use Suzie to scam Kelly's mother out of millions of dollars, after which they will kill Suzie then run off with the money.

- In order to frame Kelly, Suzie gets Lombardo to enlist the Detective (Kevin Bacon). As far as Bacon's character is concerned, he and Lombardo are planning to use Suzie and Kelly to scam Kelly's mom, then kill Suzie, frame Kelly, and split the money between the two of them.

- The Detective ends up killing Kelly instead of framing her because he thinks that leaves fewer loose ends, but in the end that doesn't really change anything in Suzie's grand scheme -- which was that she (Suzie) end up with all the money and no one looking for her.

If you re-watch the movie with the above in mind, you'll see that it all tracks. No holes at all -- everyone at all times acts consistently with what they believe is going on and what they think the other characters believe is going on. It's actually a quite impressive piece of plot-craft.

The ONLY plot point which doesn't quite track for me is the Lawyer (Bill Murray). He was Suzie's accomplice from the beginning, but Lombardo obviously doesn't know this, even though Lombardo had to somehow be steered to the Lawyer by Suzie in the first place. And at the end, the Lawyer tells Suzie he is taking his "usual fee". Hard to believe they've done this before.

Anyway, there you have it. Comments welcome.

[–] bad_habitt 19 years ago

whats the deal with kevin bacon previously killing someone in the area and how does that connect to the whole scheme?

"somebody needs to teach him the difference between hospitality and hospitalize"

[–] overpaid 19 years ago

Bacon's character killed a friend of Suzie's named Davy. Suzie therefore was motivated to get revenge on him.

[–] deltakitty2002 19 years ago

Kevin Bacon had been having a thing with one of the hookers who worked at the fish camp/motel in the Glades(the one run by Susie's grandma Carrie Snodgress.) One night he was slapping her around and Seminole Indian Davey walked in on it and tried to stop him. Bacon killed him permanently putting himself on Susie's "people to kill off" list.

Sacred cows often make the best hamburger~~Mark Twain

[–] Bob_Brooker 10 years ago

Kevin Bacon's character was also responsible for putting Suzie into a boot camp for six month.

__________
Last movie watched: The Princess Bride (6/10)

[–] crazy_hunni 19 years ago

thanks so much 4 xplaining the movie, i was so confussed at some points, now it has all come together :)

[–] saloonytoon 19 years ago

Everything makes sense...except the lawyer. If Suzie's lawyer knew all about the scam, and how devious and coldblooded Suzie was, why wouldn't he keep all the money and kill Suzie.....who would be the perfect victim since she is already presumed dead? If I was the lawyer, I'd be expecting a bullet in the back of the head in my near future from Suzie, who wants to tie up the last loose end in her byzantine scheme.

........the idiotic cock-eyed flum-dummery!

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] thecaptaineast 19 years ago

She had a 200 IQ,remember?She could have gotten the codes any number of ways...like hacking into the system.

[–] Long_Ball_Larry 19 years ago

the detective (Bacon) as well as the lawyer (Murray) mention a "numbered account" - thus no name is needed for access to the money...Murray also states that he hopes he never pisses Suzie off in the final scene...everyone that was killed had "betrayed" Suzie at some earlier point in the movie

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] IceWarm 14 years ago

Suzie and Sandra Van Ryan are also half-sisters. Suzie is also Kelly's aunt. This is explained in the unrated cut of the film. Suzie and Sandra have the same father but Suzie got abandoned and Sandra went on to become quite rich. This is another motivation for Suzie to plan this whole scheme.

[–] CraigJordan417 8 years ago

She only killed/exacted revenge on people she felt had betrayed her in some way.

[–] brat_cat1976 19 years ago

Suzie needed a lawyer who was able to play along in the court room. She was blackmailing Lombardo and telling him what to do, so he would have gone to the lawyer she recommended. There is a hint in the final scene that he was involved in her case when she went to jail, which is why he was in on it too (he asks her how her time on the inside was). Also he was conning the insurance people, so what was the chance she was blackmailing him too?

[–] intentions14 19 years ago

I think when the laywer says his "usual fee" it means the fee he takes from court and transfering money and stuff as he said this to Lombardo when he got the millions the cheque minus my usual fee

~Sammy

[–] gunknifebattleyo 19 years ago

i think that logistically, whether by black mail or not, the lawyer would have agreed to be in on the scheme with suzie, had she presented him the opportunity to get rich and still not kill anybody. he's charming as a character, and helps lombardo get his name cleared back when we still think lombardo is innocent, and so its possible to forget that he still is portrayed as a pretty sleazy lawyer, conning the insurance company and all...

[–] Aeneas-2 13 years ago

The lawyer asking Suzie how she enjoyed her time on the inside is a wink to the audience that he was in on the plot from AT LEAST during the trial, though it could still be even earlier. How did you enjoy your time on the inside was the same question he used to set up her losing it in court and "ruining" the case against Lombardo.

[–] nutsberryfarm 12 years ago

good pickup.

Season's Greetings

[–] childfreechick 19 years ago

OK, you're missing a very big piece of the picture.

At the end of the movie when the female detective (I forget her name) goes to visit the "grandmother" to question her about Ray she goes into Suzie's trailer. In the trailer she finds a scrapbook. As she's looking through the scrapbook, the grandmother walks in and starts explaining the family tree to her.

As it turns out, Suzie and Sandra Van Ryan are half sisters (they have the same father but Suzie's mother was a hooker and died shortly after giving birth). Kelly is Suzie's niece. Daddy used to go to the glades and "whore around" with hookers but one of them got pregnant. He dumped her in the glades hoping she would die, but she didn't until AFTER she gave birth to Suzie.

The grandmother is not really Suzie's grandmother (I'm not sure who she is).

So, Suzie finds out that she is the half sister of Sandra Van Ryan and she decides that she wants a piece of her pie. All the other players are just pawns in her plan but I'm sure she really did want to kill Ray because Ray killed her friend Davey and then sent her away for six months and I'm sure she was pissed off because Sam abandoned her during her time of need.

Watch the end of the movie again.

As for the lawyer, I don't know. She paid him $1 million. Oh yeah, and the lawyer gave her grandmother and brother $1 million as well.

You will remember the lawyer, after he brings her the walking around money, he mentions the $1 million for the grandmother and brother, his fee, and the balance of the money was in the form of cheque in the case with the money.

[–] unctorious 19 years ago

I just watched it on HBO and did not see the part about Sandra Van Ryan and Suzie being half-sisters, it just showed Ruby tell the female cop about the Davey story and then she talked to the alligator wrestler, is that scene on the unrated dvd? I never even heard about that scene, it definitely adds to the movie.

[–] groton24 18 years ago

okay that realy makes a odd twist in this film.

but before Ray is killed Sam Says you realy should not had killed Kelly.
I fiqured that always ment that Suzie realy did like Kelly.

[–] laudi84 18 years ago

Daddy as in Sandras daddy or Kellys daddy?
If its Kellys then that would make Suzie and Kelly half sisters. Or did I just read that wrong?

[–] deannadd1985 8 years ago

I just had to ask....the part where Kelly and Lombardo wrap Suzie up in plastic and supposedly bury her in the swamp....that looked so real to me. How did Suzie breathe in all that plastic she was wrapped in? I guess I'm confused with that part of the movie.

[–] childfreechick 19 years ago

Really? When?

[–] larsalec 19 years ago

I figured all this out during my second watch.

It's actually a pretty cool film.

[–] spookycat26 19 years ago

who took the pictures of kelly and sam at the motel?

yeah,well good luck with that

[–] write-sam 19 years ago

Suzie did... it's one of the deleted scenes on the DVD (same with the famil tree explanation).

What I don't get, really, is why Sam told Duquette that he shouldn't have killed Kelly. Everything seemed to work fine, regardless. Seemed odd.

You've offered a provocative theory. What it lacks in substance, it makes up for in pretty colors.

[–] spookycat26 19 years ago

I HAVE THE UNRATED DVD AND I DONT REMEMBER ANY WHERE IN THE MOVIE WHERE IT EXPAINS WHO TOOK THE PICTURES OF SAM AND KELLY IN THE MOTEL,

yeah,well good luck with that

[–] childfreechick 19 years ago

Don't you remember Suzie going into Sam's office and dumping an envelope of photos on his desk?

[–] spookycat26 19 years ago

yeah but she didnt say she took them,she just dumpem on his desk and said i called you a hundred times etc...it never expained who took the pictures

yeah,well good luck with that

[–] filip54 18 years ago

Jesus, she took them for christ sake! She new they were romantic, she followed to some sleazy hotell and took them.

[–] charlesheld 18 years ago

Suzie takes Sam to the dive motel so that Sam can meet Ray. Suzie tells Sam that he and Ray come to the same place, meaning that she knew the motel was where Sam and Kelly did the - ahem - wild thing. Suzie likely followed Sam & Kelly there and took the pictures.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] dreamonforever1 18 years ago

not sure the title finally given this movie sums it up completely; but
it's better than the one they originally had set for it... this title
at least gives you a clue what you're in for. you'll remember your
first time seeing this as the best, because you have no idea of the
number of plot twists, or intelligence in the script. you think you're
getting in deep with some low-budget, sex-thriller; and it turns out
that it's a real, compelling 90s noir flick. not great art; but great
entertainment. don't miss it if you can.

gregory 022306

[–] thurgix_haurach 15 years ago

Actually...I thought the lawyer was probably the one who took the pictures. I get the feeling from the movie that the lawyer was probably in on the whole deal from the very beginning. I mean this one case took him from a cruddy little office and a Gremlin to joining the country club and a fancy convertible. Probably gave him a better class of clients with larger payouts because he was the lawyer who took down a big name family. So he didn't just get his "usual" fee, he gets a lot more out of it in the long run. Plus the lawyer would have HAD to be in on it because then they could script pretty much the entire trial so that he would know exactly how to "break down" Suzie as a witness.

[–] lynnlady 9 years ago

Yup, that's what I thought too. I figured he was probably her lawyer in the past from the Davy incident when she was sent away. Or since he seemed to be on the poor side possibly he knew Ruby from the past and they were business aquaintances in some way. Obviously he wasn't a high class lawyer and they needed someone willing to go along with the scheme.



[–] RubberBucket 15 years ago

Wait why would they leave important scenes like that out of the movie?

[–] NewCliches 18 years ago

I think Overpaid has a nice summary.

One criticism – it assumes everything was planned out by Suzie in advance. There is no real need to assume that. We really have three or four separate episodes.

Episode 1): The Van Ryan Scam.
Lombardo, Kelly and Suzie conspire to defraud Sandra Van Ryan. Kelly believes Lombardo is running things. The end credits scene of Suzie blackmailing Lombardo suggests that Kelly was wrong about this. Note that there is no evidence that Ray (the detective) or Bowden (the lawyer) were involved in this plot. There was no need for them to be involved, they would make the conspiracy larger, and thus riskier, and the comment at the Gang of Three’s celebration orgy (“How much is $8.4million split three ways?”) suggests someone believed only three people were involved.

Episode 2): The Framing of Kelly.
Lombardo conspires with Ray and Suzie to frame Kelly for Suzie’s (fake) murder. Ray is led to believe the murder is real and decides, by himself, to murder Kelly. The meeting between Ray and Lombardo was arranged by Suzie, who almost certainly planned the framing, but not the murder. Suzie gained an excuse to disappear, Lombardo got the police off his back, and Ray got an undisclosed share of the money.

Episode 3): Last Girl Standing.
Lombardo and Suzie murder Ray, claiming this is justice for the murder of Kelly, and certainly removing a security risk and claimant to the money. Lombardo ends up secure in a place he feels he controls completely… and is therefore easily murdered by Suzie.

Postscript
Suzie conspired with Lombardos lawyer, Bowden, to get at all the money. We do not know when they started planning this or how they did it, but as Kenneth was Lombardos lawyer, and Suzie was his brain, it is not surprising they came up with something.

The fact that Bowden was defrauding his insurance company implies that he was already corrupt, desperate for money and vulnerable to blackmail, so Suzie could control him. Probably she suggested Lombardo hire Bowden originally. Lombardo would surely appreciate that you can most easily trust those upon whom you have dirt.

I cannot see how to decide when Suzie decided to eliminate her co-conspirators.

Any ideas?

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] juanmonge69 18 years ago

I have not seen the unrated Dvd, but does it answer the question why did Kelly's father kill himself? Could Suzie have had something to do with it? Also, when Kevin Bacon turns up in Matt Dillon's shower, I cringed, thinking that they were having their own affair and that they were going to wind up together. When they chastise Bacon for killing kelly, could they have prefered that Kelly spend the rest of her life in jail or maybe commit suicide?

[–] NewCliches 18 years ago

When they chastise Bacon for killing kelly, could they have prefered that Kelly spend the rest of her life in jail or maybe commit suicide?

Apparently. Their claims of moral superiority do look a little threadbare. This is especially true of Suzie after she murdered a man who had obeyed her every command.

[–] transmentalist 9 years ago

Per the OP's take, Kelly hadn't wronged Suzie in any way worthy of getting killed, so she wouldn't have been on Suzie's kill-list.

Given the nature of the evidence, it's unlikely Kelly would've gone down for murder (and wasn't she still a minor at the time anyway?).

Who knows, maybe Suzy expected Kelly to beat the rap and inherit what was left of the estate.