US media revisionism


Where exactly is the 'Thin Red Line' in this movie?

Given the phrase was coined during the Crimean War at the Battle of Balaclava in 1854 and referred to the 'thin red line' of the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders (backed up in no small part by Turkish infantry), I'm at a total loss to see where the phrase is relevant to this movie...unless, of course it's to subjugate the original historic reference and redefine it to a battle where it does not belong.
In a nutshell, this movie does not deserve the title that it was given and it hijacks a well known event by attributing it to a partially fictional US action almost a century later.

There is no thin line here, red or otherwise.

..if I were an American I wouldn't be happy with this deliberate obfuscation...it does no-one involved in either battle the recognition they deserve.

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[deleted]

It's no joke, and it has been used as a metaphor since the original event, but as far as this movie is concerned there isn't even the slightest connection beyond the fact that a battle is being waged.

I've never met you, so I can hardly object to meeting you.

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Oh I don't know. I think it's quite touching that the Americans use our language and our terms that hark back to valiant British military actions. It's nice to point that out to any Americans who ask where the line comes from, and of course very convenient that they speak the Queen's English.

The Thin Red Line is actually the title of a book written by James Jones. I'm not quite sure what it means - something about being 'in' the red line. Malick's thin red line I think has something to do with the thin red line between sanity / insanity or some other metaphysical waffle. Good film though.

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From wikipedia:

In reality, the 93rd's survival was due to the caution of the Russian commander, who (and in other circumstances, rightly) believed that such a small infantry force could not hope to hold out a full cavalry charge and thus must be a diversion and ordered his men to disengage

In the film, it refers to the Japanese bunker that held out until the end when the Japanese commander ordered a banzai charge. Their mission was to hold back the Marines as much as possible. So, when they couldn't hold out anymore, they attacked.
That's my guess.

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Thank you for starting this thread, no pun intended.

I too wondered how this film got it's name. No doubt it was from Jones's novel.

After doing a bit of digging around it seems the term was coined by a correspondent during the Crimean war. Seems it was referring to an English defence manoeuvre. Refer to the following link for details: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_meaning_of_the_phrases_'the_Thin _Blue_Line'_and_'the_Thin_Red_Line'.

Apparently the term inspired an artist to produce a painting of the same name. Refer to the following link for details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_Red_Line_(Battle_of_Balaclava)/

The big question, though, is why did why did Jones call his novel "The Thin Red Line". My guess is artistic license. It is, after all, an enigmatic film.

For the record, I wasn't expecting this type of film. It was quite poetic. I will have to watch it again when I'm in a melancholic mood.

7/10 Good.

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Easy one for me. What happens when the tide draws the ocean up on the beach then recedes? You get a foamy line across the sand.

What happens when two armies meet in battle? Generally speaking, following combat one army will advance while the other withdraws. What is left behind to mark where they met? A thin red line of blood and carnage. But like any macrocosm, study that in microcosms of individuals engaged in battle.

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It's taken from a Kipling poem, about the British army in the Crimean War, he talks about the thin red line of heroes.

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"[u]English[/u] defence manoeuvre"?

That's like saying the 29th Infantry Division who stormed Omaha Beach were Mexican. :)
British would have been fine, Scottish would have been accurate.

p.s. On the subject of accuracy, Russell also omitted to give any credit whatsoever to the British forces Turkish allies during the battle.

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Thanks, Captain Haggis, for picking up my error. You are absolutely correct. I must try to remember that English and British is not interchangeable.

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english and british can be interchanged, but scottish and english cant be was his point. the scots are brits, the english are brits, but the english are not scots. the real heroes were scots, so it wasnt an english defence, it could be said to be british or scottish. its like a new yorker is not a californian, both are american, so saying that new yorkers were affected by the zoot suit riots, or that the californians were affected by the attica riot wouldnt be right, but saying americans were affected by both would be fine. english and scottish are different peoples that make up the british, just like the different states make up the united states.

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It's from Kipling's poem, "Tommy". Which is about a deaf dumb and blind kid who plays pinball.

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It's from the *beep* novel, there is a thin red line between the mad and the sane. I've read it.

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In RE to OP:

IMO, Malick's "thin red line" is not about the battle where the term was coined or even Jones'use of it in terms of sanity/insanity, but, is, ironically, best described in the trailer of his Tree of Life- it's about the thin line between nature and grace.

Nature and grace can be more simply thought of as animalistic nature (ie - "survival of the fittest", "kill or be killed") vs. "motherly" nature (ie - "Love thy neighbor as one loves thy self", "beauty is in "everything"). For Malick, and I wholeheartedly agree with him, humans are THE exemplification of this divide - for we are the best behavorial examples of both. In the film, this theme is most obviously seen with Witt ("mother" nature) and Tall's (Nolte) characters (animalistic nature).

Of course, to reduce the film just to this would be greatly undermining its complexity and the multiplicity of themes working throughout the work. Brilliant film.

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"In the film, this theme is most obviously seen with Witt ("mother" nature) and Tall's (Nolte) characters (animalistic nature)".

Thank you, I couldn't have said it as well. This is a brilliant film, both in terms of the very plausible and realistic portrayal of the day to day grind of the Guadalcanal Campaign, and the psychological aspects of brutal combat. Those bored by this have seen too many cookie cutter WW2 films, and are unable to understand the nuance.

OP is also wrong about this being a fictional action. Many battles exactly like this took place in the later days of the Guadalcanal Campaign. After the heroics of the Marines in the early days, the Army moved in to "mop up". The problem was that the Japanese were reinforcing in number, by night from Rubal. So many objectives switched hands multiple times over the course of the campaign.

The film also depicts psychological aspects of the American experience in the PTO, which were completely unique.

This is one of the best war films ever made.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

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What about the thin line between this world and the next as discovered and witnessed by Pvt. Witt? To me the film explores and questions many opposite ends of the spectrum, life and death, strife and love, The Thin Red Line has always meant that fine line that separates things, the line between the surface of this world and the next.

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"The Thin Red Line" was originally "... thin red streak tipped with steel..." as war correspondent William Russell's dispatch appeared in The Times, reporting events during the Battle of Balaklava, 25th October 1854. The 93rd's were left guarding the British supply base harbour of Balaklava, whilst the rest of the Highland Brigade of the 1st Division was up on the heights in siege trenches in front of Sevastapol with the rest of the British and French infantry. Russian reinforcements from the interior attempted to capture artillery positions, mannned by Turkish troops, on the open flank of the allied army, then proceed into the valley where cavalry would destroy the British cavalry camp and the supply base. The majority of Russian cavalry headed for the British cavalry camp (but were intercepted by cavalry of the British Heavy Brigade) while about 800 cavalry split off to attack Balaklava. With a wide valley floor to defend, with only the 93rd on hand, plus Royal Marines and retiring Turkish troops, survivors from the heights, Highland Brigade commander General Sir Colin Campbell realised an infantry square could be bypassed by cavalry. He therefore elected to draw up his available force in two lines to block the cavalry, which meant receiving a cavalry charge direct - an unheard of tactic for infantry. Campbell told his troops "You must die where you stand !" to which a 93rd replied "Aye Sir Colin, if needs be, we'll do that". The first volley from their Minie rifles was seemed ineffective as the enemy force kept riding toward them. The second volley, at closer range, however, bore results, casualties toppled from saddles and and the cavalry veered to its left. Soldiers started to get ready to charge the cavalry until halted their enthusiasm. Major Ross's Grenadier Coy of the 93rd was ordered to form an angled line to fire on the flank of the veering Russians and hurried them on their way back to their own positions. After the war, Russian cavalry officers mentioned that more casualties had been caused than seemed apparent at the time, as wounded troopers clung onto their horses wherever possible rather than falling off.

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[deleted]

It's 'sanity' meaning is the most relevant here, but i always find myself partial to the literal thin red line of blood that is shown splattering on a bush for a single second in the film.

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