MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Insurrection (1998) Discussion > No Q and no Borg pretty much ended TNG's...

No Q and no Borg pretty much ended TNG's crew films


There was nothing wrong with Frakes directing, Insurrection I do think didn't build the momentum brought with First Contact. You can't go from the Borg which are iconic villians to a movie where there is no household name ot attraction built into the film from the series.

If they wanted to do a more light hearted type film, I think a Q film perhaps featuring borg plus other villians would of been more cool and more marketable. When Insurrection came out, they tried to market it as a action film, I knew then this was a bad move, but it seemed someone just lost the scope and wowness they had with first contact, they lost the audience for nemesis because insurrection was a step down from First Contact,

Why not have a borg trilogy?

Those opening scenes of first contact are so cool, dark science fiction/blade runner, which is what frakes went for in First Contact worked so well, I can't believe they went in a different direction, it seems perhaps someone made a comment, let's go lighter, the fans will always watch, but the thing with first contact, it actually was a cool science fiction film, and the borg are the top of tng's rogue galley.

Insurrection was the start of the downfall, and Nemesis didn't help it, but went further down. Generations and First Contact offered promise for many films to come, it seems EGO and poor choices ended TNG crew to a crashing hault.


John Del Lancie was great as Q and the humour was always there, I always remembered Q movie rumours popping up, but they never included him, they could of perhaps used him and the borg, come up with some sort of story, these are the iconic villians of the tv series, give the people what they want! First Contact was a success, if you wanna milk anything and get away with it, milk the borg, there's nothing like those Cube shaped ship on posters, and Q would of added a lighter touch in the darkness.

Someone was not thinking regarding Insurrection and Nemesis. I like to think of First Contact and Generatonas as the TNG films, I would own them, but Insurrection and Nemesis is a classic examples of studio/s/producers getting stupid and thick. The TNG crew and it's fans deserved better. The show was not always consistent in quality and the TNG films I'm afraid went the same route, I would of let Rick Berman go a long time ago.




There was also a good chance of immediately starting production on a TNG Dominion war film which could have been a cross-over with the introduction of the DS9 crew to the big screen. It would have been the best and easiest way to have transitioned the DS9 crew to the big screen should they have chosen to then do subsequent films. Their second biggest mistake was not taking Nemesis' final cut from the Director's hands.



A TNG/DS9 crossover movie would get be pumped up, the way of the warrior tv movie is more entertaining then Insurrection. I do think that the crew who did DS9 were not effected by Rick Berman, and that tv show has become more respected over the years, imagine what they could of done with a TNG/DS9 movie.



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You can't go from the Borg which are iconic villians to a movie where there is no household name ot attraction built into the film from the series. >>> Really? I guess you don't know your film history, as Star Trek IV The Voyage Home did EXACTLY that with great success, following Khan and Klingons with a whale biologist and her two humpbacked whales.

Why not have a borg trilogy? >>> Because Star Trek is not about the Borg.

Insurrection was the start of the downfall, and Nemesis didn't help it, but went further down. >>> Star Trek was already showing signs of wear and franchise fatigue. People just weren't caring anymore, and Insurrection ended up being a weak entry that only served to prove those who were becoming tired of Trek as being right. Insurrection did not fail because it was light, it failed because it was rewritten over and over again to the point of losing it's real focus. They started off with a darker story that would have taken Picard and the crew into new territory, but the producers (Berman and company) had fallen into the trap of not taking chances and instead opted to play it safe. Audiences were very aware of this, which is yet another reason they were tuning out.

Generations and First Contact offered promise for many films to come, it seems EGO and poor choices ended TNG crew to a crashing hault. >>> Actually, they just paved the way for disrespecting continuity and turning a once interesting series into the Picard/Data action hour. First Contact is a good action movie, but the story it tells wasn't needed and relied heavily on ignoring already established facts such as who Zephram Cochran was or what the Borg collective really was. Basically, the Borg went from being a scary alien force to being James Cameron's ALIENS, complete with transforming the ship into a nest-like hive and having a queen (which made absolutely no sense, despite cheap retcon dialogue about her having always been there). The less said about the drunken buffoon Cochran the better. Anyhow, they could have made First Contact II and it most likely still would have wavered at the box office. Trek was in decline and it wasn't just because of one or two movies, but the whole franchise as a whole.

Someone was not thinking regarding Insurrection and Nemesis. I like to think of First Contact and Generations as the TNG films, I would own them, but Insurrection and Nemesis is a classic examples of studio/s/producers getting stupid and thick. >>> Generations was just as full of this thick stupidity as the last two films. Including Kirk was an embarrassing joke when all was said and done, a silly premise that turned a potentially great science fiction plot into a stupid plot device that existed for no other reason than to get the two Captains together. It's only real redeeming quality is that it at least still felt like TNG. The rest of the film, including First Contact, feel like some sort of nightmare Picard is having rather than an actual extension of the universe we all know and loved. In fact, that is what it is since the writers of Generations did such a piss poor job on the Nexus that they left the door wide open for Picard to never have left it and all that came later was just Nexus-induced fantasies that gave him exactly what he wanted...including the finale of Generations itself!

There was also a good chance of immediately starting production on a TNG Dominion war film which could have been a cross-over with the introduction of the DS9 crew to the big screen. >>> The only mistake made was in getting away from what trek was supposed to be to start with...exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and boldly going where no one has gone before. The series instead opted to be about action first and foremost, and making a boring war movie would only have furthered that misguided direction.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

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A big problem with Insurrection is that it's not the new age Voyage Home they wanted it to be; it takes its central concept too seriously for that. While The Voyage Home tackles an "important" topic despite the odd earnest line the film is perfectly aware it's not going to resolve the issue in the real world and things never get too heavy. I'm not sure why Berman (and presumably others) felt "light relief" was especially needed after First Contact; it was a "dark" film in some senses, but it wasn't a "heavy" experience for the characters like Wrath of Khan and Search For Spock were.

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I also wish they would have done a Q movie.

There was great potential for a TNG Q movie.
Cause I like "Insurrection" more than "Nemesis" and Q is fitting for a grand conclusion, I wish the last TNG movie were a Q movie.

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Moriarty would have been a good villian.

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Moriarty would have been a good villian.


No, thanks.

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He was good for the show, but to get him out of the holodeck wouldn't be easy to do while suspending disbelief.

I loved Moriarity but they really could not have used him for the movies.

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Using Moriarty:

IIRC the Conan Doyle estate was very unhappy with TNG using Sherlock Holmes characters and threatened a law suit; at any rate they quelched any further use of those characters (or is this another Nexis dream? I only vaguely remember this.)

I tend to agree that burnout, along with the direction that B&B took the franchise, as the main reasons why the franchise was already fading by 1998. Those who experienced TOS initially or in early syndication wanted more. Maybe like Oliver Twist, they just wanted another bowl of porridge; instead they got a banquet table full and became satiated, while those too young to remember TOS and the long hiatus between its demise, the movies, and TNG were never as invested in the ST universe as Roddenberry conceived it and simply moved on.

Personally I hated the Borg and skipped any TNG episode that included them; no knock against those who like them, just my own personal reaction. It took me forever to watch First Contact on dvd; the Borg story was good (mostly) but to this day I hate what they did with Zephram Cochran.

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"Plus, it's freaking ironic that the film says that Humpback whales went extinct in the 21st Century when in fact there are far more Humpback whales now than there were in 1986. Uh.... good foresight there, Roddenberry."


Might wanna look up the definition of that word...

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You can't go from the Borg which are iconic villians to a movie where there is no household name ot attraction built into the film from the series.


As opposed to going from Kruge and the Klingons to a bunch of pissed off whales?

P.S. Generations sucked.

What are you on about, window licker?!

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No Borg or Q? I thought Voyager killed Q and the Borg. Voyager was Berman's Show, and after season 4 of DS9 it was clear that DS9 wasn't Berman's show anymore, it was Ira Stephen Behr's. Berman focused more on Voyager and the films and let DS9 run itself. Which is the main reason why the quality of DS9 was much, much better than the Berman ran Treks. Berman wouldn't put Ds9 on screen, instead it looked like a Voyager Transition in Nemesis with the Janeway cameo. Which is sad, a DS9/TNG crossover could have been great. Either the Borg, or a Dominion movie could have saved this franchise. Now we are in an alternate past with a Kirk and Spock meant to appeal to the masses and not the true fans. Rick Berman screwed Star trek.

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Berman wouldn't put Ds9 on screen, instead it looked like a Voyager Transition in Nemesis with the Janeway cameo.


You really thought that was a transition? A passing of the torch? Really? That cameo? Really?

And your idea sucks too. You know what saved this franchise? Abrams Trek. And I don't know what a "true fan" is, but I don't think you're qualified to make that determination as I like the new Trek and I've been a fan for a long time. It kind of blows your statement out of the water.

Ohhh, a lesson in not changing history from "I'm my own grandpa".

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DS9/TNG ...no thanks , DS9 completely sucked

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I stopped watching DS9 around season 3, but more because I was just getting sick of Star Trek at the time. Every now and again, I catch a rerun of a later episode and it is good. Some day, I will revisit the show and watch it from beginning to end.

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

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I love DS9. The only ST series I never could in to was Voyager. I liked Sisko because he was a no nonsense individual, whereas Janeway was too emotional for me. Kill a life form if it means getting home from the DQ was always my philosophy and they overdid the "coulda gone home but we won't because it's mean." If you like Voyager that's fine I'm not bashing the show, just couldn't get in to it myself. As for this movie, when I want to see a 2 hour TNG episode, I watch this. I don't think it's bad, it's not especially good. It's like an OK episode of TNG that just so happens to be a movie.

About the Borg, they did that in First Contact so they couldn't bring them back. They never doubled up on villains in the first six movies. I don't count V or VI because in VI the Klingons weren't really the villain, just the main antagonist happened to be Klingon. Parts of the federation were just as villainous. As far as Q goes, the finale of TNG ended his story line with them. The human race was no longer on trial, and Picard and crew were glad to be rid of him. Cardassians might have been a good antagonist for this movie, or the Romulans. I was happy to see Romulans in Nemesis though that film wasn't all that great (not bad either).

"You keep calling me Walter. I don't like you," -Rorschach

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I think it was deliberate not to have a repeat performance of the Borg as main villains. Just like the TV series didn't overuse the Borg. Besides, they did the biggest Borg story possible. They traveled to Earth to go back in time to "assimilate the past to assimilate the future" and "stop first ccontact". Anything else would seem to small.

Perhaps use a single Borg as a possible catalyst for a larger story. Just making it up now but like that TNG episode, the Federation sends a virus to the Borg Cube that's supposed to disable the Borg and free them or just destroy them but it has larger effects on the galaxy.

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Plus, it's freaking ironic that the film says that Humpback whales went extinct in the 21st Century when in fact there are far more Humpback whales now than there were in 1986. Uh.... good foresight there, Roddenberry. >>> I see you are over-nitpicking the film. Where are your remarks about late twentieth century genetic engineering that didn't happen? And Roddenberry did not write Trek IV. He hasn't done anything in the film series since The Motion Picture. Not sure how you can sit there and cast your sarcastic comment toward Roddenberry.

I just watched Trek IV again earlier tonight, wrapping up the unofficial trilogy of Trek movies, and it is a light hearted enjoyable film. God forbid they dare make a feel good movie. God forbid that they preach a bit in the film! It is still enjoyable Too bad you are so anal retentive that you can't enjoy it. Your loss.

A fan bitched and moaned. Take that, evil Nimoy!

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Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

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