MovieChat Forums > Le violon rouge (1999) Discussion > ***Spoilers...Did the Pope Violin

***Spoilers...Did the Pope Violin


copy have bullet hole in it as well? If so, that would make the switch difficult, no?

And if it did, why and how would that happen? It would seem silly to make a copy of a beautiful violin and then take it out in the field and shoot it. How would you get the hole to match properly? What if you blew the neck off?

Even if there was a hole, wouldn't a close inspection show differences?

Either way, if Sam Jackson stole the real violin, it seems as if as soon as the old man kicks the bucket (can't be more than 5 to 10 years) and his estate sells it, an appraiser will say, "Wait, this isn't 340 years old, it's only 100. This is the Pope Copy!"

And how did the Pope copy get there? Purchased by Jackson. Slap the cuffs on. Jail.

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I never was able to get a good enough look to tell about the gunshot to the violin, but let's discuss the copy for a moment since that really doesn't matter anyway. I'll come back to it though in a second.

Many people who own incredible pieces of art commission copies of said art, so that if thieves ever tried to steal it, they would steal the decoy instead. That is the most likely reason for the copy, especially back in that day. It's not about copying the sound, it's about insurance for the one that does have the sound.

The hole wouldn't have mattered anyway, I doubt. There were only four people who knew about the hole and it's unlikely that anyone would have discussed it, though (granted) not totally impossible. Still, why does that matter? It's only a matter of a great artist to copy the hole or damage, so that's of little consequence. You don't need to shoot it, which is a silly notion. Think of how Hollywood makes things look real. Granted, some are cheesy but some are definitely not.

As for the task of knowing the difference between copies later on in our future, this would be a simple thing. Jackson did do DNA tests (which they have records of) so there is am absolutely perfect record of which is truly the copy and which is real. The question becomes instead, when will they discover that they've been duped? No one bothered to double check!!! What stupidity.

As for the copy vs. the real thing... the ONLY difference that viewers will know for sure about, is the jewel that the Chinese pawn shop owner removed. The last known record of ownership was Pope (along with his copy). That means that anything which happened to the real one after Pope will show which is the real one, that being the jewel removed. The copy wouldn't have had the jewel removed. This is fortunate for the viewer, so we can see for certain which is which. As for the characters they don't have this nifty piece of information, and so much rely on DNA tests.

Also, the viewer can then verify that the character is not lying to us about the DNA test. We can see for ourselves which is the true Red.

How did the copy get found? That's what the master of suspense (Alfred Hitchcock) would call a "MacGuffin" (try Googling it). That part doesn't matter since it isn't part of our story. If you MUST have an answer, then just imagine that it was sold along with Pope's estate items when he died.

Oh and speaking of death... how on earth did you come up with Jackson kicking the bucket after only 10 years?! Freaking spare me! It's been way over 10 years since the movie was made and Jackson will be with us for many years to come.

Spare me your 6th grade Michael Moore logic! ~ Secretary Heller; 24, Day 4, 7:30:00 a.m.

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I meant that in 10 years, the old man, the collector who bought the violin will die. Then his estate will get his stuff appraised. An appraiser could certainly tell the difference between the real one and the copy.

Who would then be the prime suspect in the switcheroo? Jackson.

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Cindy covered it pretty well.


Also, once a violin has a provenance, it's rare that anyone takes a very close look afterwards. If the copy was made by an expert, it could be VERY hard to tell it's not real, without taking it apart or carbon dating it.


And finally, if the owner of the fake Pope violin ever did find out it was a copy, they would likely just "bury" that information, and resell it as the real thing. Most people who buy & sell this type of thing are semi-clueless, anyway, and simply buy them as an investment. (The same happens with oil paintings and other art work. Fakes are everywhere, and no one really cares.)

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Fakes are everywhere, and no one really cares.


I would have thought insurance companies would care; their premiums are based on appraised monetary value. I'm not crying for the insurance industry though, they've shown repeatedly, that they can take care of themselves. And do.

 Some movies are released; others sneak out. 

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We can assume, since it wasn`t shown, that Chinese guy in his shop restored the bullet hole, otherwise he couldn`t sold it further.

Of course that copy doesn`t have hole in it. And it shouldn`t have, copies should be a replica of originals before any of damage is made. That is what copies serves for. Of course that in some moment it would be noticed, that original is actually a copy, and that Jackson would be the first suspect, but that is really irrelevant for the whole movie, story, and the point. Focus important issues of this movie.

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