I did
though he was technically a slavemaster
1) He only wanted to live up to his father and not be the weak link, If i were in his position i porbably wouldnt have set the people free.
2) him and moses were so close and this broke them apart
3) His son dies
4) Up until the death of his son he still had brotherly feelings towards moses
im only talking about the movie not the bible
Ya ain't getting it like I'm getting it
Ya ain't pimping like I'm pimping
Yea I kinda agree with you.
shareI felt kinda sad for Rameses aswell...
share[deleted]
"Ramses enslaved people and made them work under brtual conditions. That's like saying you feel sorry for Hitler."
I 100% agree. Cmon people, think.
I felt so srry for Rameses, but for what he did, their was really no other choice for Moses. Does anyone remember what happens to Rameses after Moses frees his people?? Cause i didn't read the story.
shareI think the point was that you sympathized a bit for Ramses. I always felt bad for him when I watched him lose his son. God, we know he wasn't a saint, but you can still feel sorry for people.
shareI also feelt bad for Ramses. I like him.
by the way, there were people from all cultures/religions/races who were bad at that time..Ramses had lessons to be a Pharaoh,so, of course he will behave like one.
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Yea, Ramses II lived until he was around 82 years old. He fathered over 500 children and raised Egpyt up to one of the most powerful countries, if not the most powerful country, in the world at the time. And contrary to what many people are saying about Ramses here, historical records indicate that Ramses was a good Pharoah and treated his people AND "slaves" well.
shareI felt sympathy for him, but he brought a lot of it on himself.
shareThe OP is talking about the depiction of Rameses in the movie/animation, not the one we know from the Bible/history/etc.
C'mon people, think.
Oh, what a big man you are! Hey let me buy you a pack of gum, I'll show you how to chew it
i suppose...
i can see both points of view.
Skanks don't die they multiply
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I'm gonna post this again since some of you still seem to think Ramses is evil.
\Whoever said that there are no evil characters in this film is just plain wrong. God was the one and only evil character in this film. =)
Speaking as a person who does not believe in the Bible, Ramses did nothing wrong really. What was he supposed to think when his long lost brother, after ditching him for many years, comes back after joining a cult with a cruel as God demanding that he take away all the slaves that have historically always been there and is an invaluable part of Egyption economy? If he lets the slaves go, the Empire would surely collapse since much of the construction require slaves. Did Moses or God really expect him to be a pussy and say "oh ok you're right slavery is wrong you take them and leave"?
Back in the day slavery was common place and if Ramses wanted to kill a whole bunch of slaves he had every right to kill them. What gives God the right to kill a whole bunch of innocent Egyptians who had nothing to do with anything? There wasn't anything else that was logical or even righteous for Ramses to do. In this film IMO Ramses seemed to be more complex a character than even Moses, who seemed to take up blind faith for this "God" rather quickly. Ramses was fcked either way so decided to keep his balls and give Moses the finger, but Moses came out on top because he had the better imaginary friend. =S
In the end, God was a racist, genocidal maniac that holds the same attitude as most Chinese Emperors; "You disobey me, I kill you!" []
Very sad really.
yea???
Hitler was a psychopathic dictator who killed 12 million people in cold blood. Alriht i'll give you that, yea ramses wasnt a great guy. But First of all Had Moses not found out his past he would have been exactly like Ramses. Second Ramses was born and raised with the concept of slavery. Im sure if u were raised with slaves u wouldnt give a lick about them(like moses until he found out about his past) and he didnt want to be the "weak link", He wanted to prove himself to be a good pharaoh (the morning and the evening star).Had he given into Moses he would have shown his ass to be weak Im not saying that I like Ramses I just have sympathy for him.
They don't send people like me to hell. I'd end up running the place."
I think thats part of the point: Seti says something like "You wont ever have to carry a burden like the one that I will pass to Ramses." But of course, he doesnt realize that Moses' burden will be much greater: He will have to be president of these slaves, wreak havoc on a kingdom he loves, and tear his brother's life apart. I think that the message is that whats right may not be whats easy, and that for people of Islamic/Jewish/Christian beliefs, the Egyptian idolatry and opression eclipses all of the good.
Or am I wrong?
'a million bright ambassadors of morning'
Feel sorry for Ramses? You kidding me? The person who wanted to kill all new born babies again once Moses asked him to let his people go? The man who used more slaves and worked them even harder to make a better Egypt than that of his father? A man who abused and killed people he called slaves? Feel sorry? He was on his way to kill every single person fleeing including Moses and you feel sorry for him? You have got to be kidding me. If you are Jewish and you feel sorry for this man, it is identical to feeling sorry for Hitler on his way out. You feel a little bad when he is screaming Moses's name in the movie I understand, but when you remember what he did to the Jews, you instantly forget it. You do not and should not feel sorry fot this man, he did nothing for you to feel sorry for.
You killed Killer B!
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he brought all of this crap [the 10 plauges] upon himself. he phails, except when he is standing over his dead son, I nearly cried.
as a side note, i read that egyptian slaves were paid in food and clothing, and they did have basic human rights....
"Well, we're boned"
In my opinion, both Rameses and God were both rather equally heartless, but I felt more sympathetic to Rameses.
Rameses grew being pressured into who he was. Who he had to be. He had to the Pharaoh, as he said, the Morning Star and so on and so forth. His father expected this from him and he strived to fulfill it. He had thought he had managed to do so, become the greatest Pharaoh in all of history when his own brother comes to deliver threats if he doesn't let people he has never believed to be equal to him go. From God? He believes in Ra. In Horus and Isis and Osiris. Considering we know how hard it is for people to let go of their beliefs, it wasn't as if he was going to start jumping on bandwagons any time soon.
His father was much the same. I'm not saying it isn't awful for him to take every newborn son and throw them to the crocodiles, but taking perspective here, I'm betting he had much the same upbringing that Rameses did. He did what he believed was right. And someone who believes what they're doing is right is terrifying, because if they're wrong, you won't be able to convince them otherwise.
You could argue that Rameses brought the Plagues onto himself. But was the entire empire, filled with plenty of innocents of its own, a fitting punishment for him alone? Rameses might have killed innocents, but from another angle, so did God. No one in Egypt was at fault for the slaves, it had just become to be the order of things, so why were they punished for the wrong doing of their leader?
It was heartbreaking to see Rameses cry over his son. No one should have to see the body of their dead child. But the truly frightening thing is that knowledge that he wasn't the only one affected. All over Egypt there were innocent families crying over the bodies of their first born. Some of them probably didn't even know what had happened and I think that was the true horror of the tenth plague.
I might be making God out as the bad guy here, but I am atheist and if you have a problem with anything I just said, I apologise. But with that said, I have read the Bible, and God isn't really the type of person I'd like to have around, or more specifically, ruling me.
Anyway. Shutting up now.
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Yeah, i felt sorry for him. Especially when Moses gives him his ring back. Although Ramesis was like into having slaves and not caring about them, he still deserved a chance.
shareI raised on the basis of telling the differance between "Bad" and "Evil". Ramesis was bad, hitler was evil. Ramesis in the end was just a emotionally stubborn son who couldn't see beyond his father's shadow and beacuse of this lost son, parts of his kingdom, and (after seeing that big-ass pillar of fire) probably his sanity. Hitler was a genocidal *beep* who preyed upon his people inbred fear, anger, and bigotry and started one of the greatess wars in history.
shareI hope you guys are all referring to "movie Ramses" and not "historical Ramses" as there is no evidence (in history, archaeology, or in the Bible) that Ramses the II was the Pharaoh of the Exodus.
share[deleted]
The point of the movie is that you feel a little sorry for him, for this movie offers complex characters, not the typical cartoonish black and white. Seeing him lose his son is painful, no matter what kind of man he is and what he´s done. AFter all, he was predestined and educated to become Pharaoh, with everything that belongs to this job.
shareI feel sorry for the human being that was Rameses, not the Pharaoh that he was.
My cat ate your honor student
Witch #3
I’d like to state that Rameses did not PERSONALLY round up all of the Hebrews and enslave them. It was pounded into his head his whole life that the Hebrews were below him and the other Egyptians. He was never taught anything else. So when Moses asks him to free the slaves, he naturally thinks it’s ridiculous and refuses. However, the reason he doubled the work load of the slaves was because he thought that he had is old brother back, but really he didn’t, so he was angry and wanted to get back at Moses.
Rameses had no personal vendetta against the Hebrews at all. He only did horrible things to them because he was angry and had no idea that what he was doing was wrong.
Before Moses comes and starts all of the hubbub, it seems to me that Rameses is actually doing pretty well as Pharaoh. New monuments are being built, and the people he ruled seem pretty happy. Of course, the slaves are miserable, but that’s a given.
Rameses is a very sympathetic character, and it is perfectly natural to feel sorry for him.
Realy? Just like that?
I 40% felt sorry for him while the other 60% is how much I really didn't like him that much. I felt so sad cause he and Moses were really close brothers until Moses found out he was Hebrew
The sun rolling high, through the sapphire sky keeps great and small on the endless round
It was pounded into his head his whole life that the Hebrews were below him and the other Egyptians. He was never taught anything else. So when Moses asks him to free the slaves, he naturally thinks it’s ridiculous and refuses.
Exactly. The idea of not having slaves would have seemed as crazy to him as the concept of owning slaves seems to people today, b/c we've been raised w/the idea that slavery is bad.
"Every town has an Elm Street..."
I feel bad for him too. it's wrong for him to keep slaves but he was raised like that. hurts your head to think about it. Moses was in quite a predicement having to do that to Ramses- his brother figure. I don't remember the bible saying that they were close though...?
shareexactly! you worded it way better.
It's disturbing how many wives and kids they had. That's something that really bothers me bout the past. there racist(different forms) selves, yatta yatta yatta. I dont think i have to mention all the bad moral issues they had cause most people feel the same way. I'm not wording this well... I wonder if these old egyption ladies ever got jealous of there hubbies having 11 other wives. or if anyone back when thought the way(the good part way) of how we feel. hm
I love Rameses! He's my favorite character. Yes, he kept slaves, but that was normal back then. You can't blame people for the times they live in. And even in the bible story, it's not his fault. It says that whenever Rameses started to want to free the slaves, God "Hardened his heart." Look it up. He couldn't have freed them even if he'd wanted to. He lost his brother, and then his son. IMO, he was a more sympathetic character than either God or Moses.
shareI was just thinking about this today. Yeah, it would be extremely hard to be in his position. If you let them go, you would basically be watching your dynasty collapse. But it's obvious that he should've let them go anyway. I would have.
"I love you, Mommy." -Aidan, the ring twO
I hate feeling sorry for the villains but I do feel kind of sorry for Ramesese in this movie. Especially when we last saw him on a big stone screaming Moses's name.
shareyes i felt pretty sorry for him. especially at the end. but you have to remember that he brought it all on himself by being stubborn and refusing to listen to moses, or God.
share"Ramese has no respect for the hebrew lives, no respect at all he recognises the slaves as insects. And right now thats exactly what most Americans, British and Israelis are doing to Muslims in the Middle East. Iraq, Afganistan, Lebanon, Palestain and soon Iran and Syria."
well isn't that ass backwards. I know for sure of American government and I bet it's the same in Great Britain and Israel, that at the basis of their government, that all people are created equal, and that their actions define who they are. Under Muslim government, (the only true Muslim government being that of Sharia) calls for the elimination of all "unbelievers". That the basis of their government that those who aren't Muslim are lower then low. Muslims don't respect the lives of anybody else. They're taught not to.
But back on point....
Yeah I do feel bad for Ramses both in the movie, and to some degree in Exodus, because, if I'm not mistaken, it is God who in fact hardens Pharoah's heart. I feel bad for most humans though, we're all fallen.