MovieChat Forums > The Negotiator (1998) Discussion > Hard to sympathize with anyone willing t...

Hard to sympathize with anyone willing to endanger innocents...


Seriously, I pretty much stopped caring how wronged/railroaded Jackson's character was the second he decided he was entitled to take hostages and toy with innocent people's lives.

SPOILER

When he pretended to have killed one of the SWAT police officers and threatened to kill more people if Savian didn't kiss his @$$, I pretty much wanted him shot dead on the spot.

In fact, wouldn't in real life SWAT just burst in and take their chances after he supposetly killed a hostage? I mean as far as I know, once the killing starts the hostages are considered to be in imminent danger and thus a violent assault is justified to enter and end the BS right there.

So having him just kill a hostage and threaten to kill more is pretty absurd. If SWAT can get in with a good chance of getting most hostages alive, they would the second a hostage gets killed. I mean, after killing one what's stopping the kidnapper to kill a few more? He's already down for murder 1 anyway.

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The movie is set in the late 1990's, and a lot has changed since that time. Security responses these days would probably be a lot different. Great movie though, compelling to watch!

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How different? Due to the terrorist angle?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the response to hostages getting shot has never changed: enter anyway possible and stop the situation then and there.

Plus the Jackson character is a mayor entitled prick, too bad he didn't get killed.

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[deleted]

Ah sure, and if I tie you up and lay you on a busy highway, the cars killed you, not me...

Killer logic there you got going...

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[deleted]

"Cars aren't alive. They can't distinguish between people."

Last time I checked cars have very much alive drivers who can distinguish between people just as easily as a SWAT team.

And if you really want an acid test for your logic, try running into any embassy confident in your opinion that the security detail can easily tell you're not a terrorist...

The guy took hostages, plain and simple. Hostages are ALWAYS at risk of being killed by friendly fire if they feel the need to storm the building, which can happen any second after shots are fired, regardless of who fired them and with what intention. So by forcing/provoking/inviting/whatever a firefight, he's inviting an armed assault, which can easily result in hostages getting killed.

If you really think he's 100% blameless then you need your head examined.

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I had the same thought watching this. It is a pet peeve of mine when the hero puts innocent lives at risk (like with some crazy stunt or trying to get away in a chase), usually just to save himself or a loved one. It was especially bad here because the guy was a hostage negotiator so he should know what that means

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Agreed.

He knows he's risking/inviting a violent assault which will most likely result in hostages getting killed.

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The hostages were not at risk. In a regular situation the hostages are at risk from the HT. Roman knew they were not at risk from him. Therefore not in danger.

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Bull$h!t!!!!!

What if SWAT decides to storm the place? Most likely several hostages will get killed by friendly fire.

Since they already believe he killed a cop, what's to stop them from deciding they better move in now and save whomever is lucky not to get hit by them?

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It was one of the bad cops that killed the hostage. And this is a movie. Case closed.

Trailer Park Boys is the best series ever made.

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The OP is a troll. And this is coming from someone who just seen the movie and gave it a 6. It isn't anything special but the OP is talking out his ass.

Don't like what I'm saying? Then call 1800-Ima-CryBaby and ask for "Waaaaaa"

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Some things to think about before you go on a rant about the reluctance to breach:

Calculating risks to hostages in a hostage take situation must be done before storming in. Negotiators do exist and will be implemented in non-terrorist situations.

Two of the hostages were officers. Big time ones.

They DID attempt a small scale breach, and would have succeeded with zero casualties to hostages had Palermo not caved, and took the shot. Danny did not bluff with killing a hostage until after this took place, and did so in retaliation.

With Frost being let go, and Niebaum dead, both of Danny's biggest leverages were compromised, and the FBI wasted no time to relieve Sabian and prepare a full scale breach.

It's a movie. Let some sh*t go, eat your popcorn, and enjoy.

- The General has spoken.

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Taking hostages wasn't a planned or calculated decision by Roman.

In case you don't remember, Roman had just met with the DA who told him they had a case against him. His lawyer basically tells him he's fvcked and to cut a deal. So in the spare of the moment Roman decides to confront Nebaum to ask what his involvement in the whole thing was. Nebaum then tells his security guard to get Roman out of the building and a struggle ensues and the security guard foolishly pulls a gun on Roman and the gun goes off while Roman tries to wrestle it away from him.

It all happens in the spare of the moment. Roman never intended on creating a hostage situation in the hopes of clearing his name.

I don't know how you could seriously have such a lack of empathy for Roman and what's happening to him. Up until the hostage situation it's been established that Roman is excellent at what he does, is well respected and liked by his peers and co-workers and was set-up and framed for a very serious crime that he did not commit. The evidence seems over-whelming against him and he could be facing some serious jail time. Again, his lawyer tells him they have too strong a case against him and to cut a deal. He was almost certain to go to trial and be convicted.

As far as the hostages being in danger, Roman knows the rules of engagement in a hostage situation and knew as long as he was controlling the situation that SWAT was NOT going to storm in their and shoot the place up. It was the dirty cops involved in the conspiracy that stormed the building and shot Nebaum and Roman can't be held accountable for the actions of corrupt cops trying to cover their crime.

Yes, something could have happened to one of the hostages but it was very unlikely and Roman knew this. Did you not hear the constant dialogue about the rules of engagement in a hostage situation? It's made clear to us - the audience, that Roman knows the hostages aren't in any jeopardy as long as everyone is following orders and doing their job.

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I agree with you, OP.

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I agree with you, OP.


Did you bother to read any of the other posts in this thread? The OP is wrong and so are you.

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Yes, and your post definitely didn't change my mind.

It seems you are the one who's wrong, having such a problem with other people's opinion.

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Well myself and others in this thread have provided logical explanations for the issues bought up and you've failed to make any sort of argument or counterpoint.

It's not just a matter of opinion because the OP demonstrated that he didn't understand how everything went down in the movie and why Danny Roman acted the way he did.

This is a discussion. Not a "yeah I agree" thread. Make an argument/counterpoint or don't bother.

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This is a discussion. Not a "yeah I agree" thread. Make an argument/counterpoint or don't bother


IMDb has no such conditions for posting in a thread.

I agree with the OP and not with you. Deal with it.

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I would just like to reply to you again and point out what an utter moron you are. Maybe some lunatic should take you hostage one day.🙂

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Hard to sympathize with anyone willing to endanger innocents...


Hence all the hatred for the average cop.

They just shot a hostage 10 times in Stockton, CA recently.

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Thread is really old but I had to post anyway because I agree with this.

The movie takes the OPPOSITE reaction to the movie called "Inside Man" with Denzel Washington and Clive Owen.

In one part, Denzel threatens Clive, by saying that he is one call away to tell all the cops to storm the place and Clive tells him that "You do NOT burst in on a hostage situation when the kidnapper hasn't hurt anyone and is showing to be not violent despite of being armed".

Then when Clive pretends to kill someone the cops go crazy and decide that the only way to deal with them is to storm the place with guns, no more negotiation.

Pretty much exactly the opposite of this movie. And I think it makes more sense that way, as you expained.

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Thread is really old but I had to post anyway because I agree with this.

The movie takes the OPPOSITE reaction to the movie called "Inside Man" with Denzel Washington and Clive Owen.

In one part, Denzel threatens Clive, by saying that he is one call away to tell all the cops to storm the place and Clive tells him that "You do NOT burst in on a hostage situation when the kidnapper hasn't hurt anyone and is showing to be not violent despite of being armed".

Then when Clive pretends to kill someone the cops go crazy and decide that the only way to deal with them is to storm the place with guns, no more negotiation.

Pretty much exactly the opposite of this movie. And I think it makes more sense that way, as you expained.


The cops did make a small scale breach early on into the situation and after Roman bluffed that he killed a cop, they immediately set up a full scale breach that was only stopped because Sabian was placed in charge of the situation and insisted time and time again to let him handle the situation while all the higher ups were fighting him on that decision.

I can only assume most people in this thread have probably only seen the movie once and have apparently missed or forgotten certain details (even though they were pretty important details)

And again, Roman didn't plan any of this. He was only just informed that he was faced with very serious jail time and went back upstairs to, as he put it, "confront my accusers". Nebaum antagonised him and then the security detail placed on Roman attempted to tackle him to the ground before he'd even done anything which is when Roman pulled his gun, panicked, and then the situation escalates from there.

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I agree that there was no masterplan to take a bunch of innocent people hostage--it was a situation that kept escalating because someone on the police force wanted Roman dead, asap.

Initially, it's entirely plausible someone seeing himself being railroaded off to prison would feel desperate enough to grab the opportunity to initiate a confrontation with the slimeball who's going to sit by and watch it happen.

Once those dominoes started falling, I thought the smartest plot point of the whole movie was Roman's argument that "someone's going to make a move to kill you (Walsh) before you tell me what I want to know, so if you don't want to be the bystander victim of a SWAT bullet, start talking."

Conceivably, J.T. Walsh would have seen the sense in that, spilled his guts and the whole thing would have wrapped up with everyone safe.

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