The Balrog should have been smaller


Don't get me wrong, I love that scene, but I can't help thinking that making the Balrog so big (much bigger than Tolkien described them) took away the mystique of the creature. From the movie, it seems that the threat of the Balrog comes mostly from being a huge beast covered in flames, when in reality the real threat of a Balrog is being a powerful magical (and inherently evil) supernatural being. I think it should have been bigger than a person yes, but about 12' tall or so (which is roughly what their size seems to be from the books). In the movie, the Balrog is at least 25' tall.

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Well, if after ten hours of film the only complaint is that one of the beasties should have been smaller I guess they did alright.

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Well yeah, I love this movie, but honestly I find The Fellowship of the Ring better than the other two. The overlong battle scenes just don't do it for me, especially the one in The Two Towers (at least the Return of the King battle has more variety). Also, The Fellowship of the Ring is the only one where I thought they got all the characters right; in the sequels I found Théoden and (especially) Denethor quite disappointing honestly.

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Back in the Elder Days of this board one of the frequent contributors used to point out "how much they got right" and I think that's a helpful perspective.

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I've seen many artist's paintings of the the battle on the Bridge of Khazad-dum made before PJ's adaptation, and there's a wide range of interpretations regarding the Balrog's size and appearance (and illustrating both sides of the wings debate). Some of them depict a Balrog even more massive than the one PJ envisioned.

In FotR, Tolkien only described the size of the Balrog with this line ..and suddenly it drew iteself up to a great height, In contrast, Gandalf is described as seeming ...small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm. This vague and relative description of the Balrog lends itself to a wide variety of artistic interpretations.

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One of the very first flamewar debates on USENET was about whether or not Balrogs had wings. So, pretty much all of the lines Tolkien used during the encounter were gone over exhaustively.

I'll add this quote from where the Balrog is first seen by the Fellowship: "like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater".

Tolkien never clearly describes just how big it is, which is how he tends to describe many things and people. As an example, I suggest reading how he describes Elrond when Frodo first sees him. Tolkien wanted to engage people's imaginations, so he liked to describe things in a way that would cause people to fill in the blanks, as it were. Thus, two people might have somewhat different details of what something looks like.

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The book said that the Balrog's wings spanned from wall to wall, and since the cavern they were in was reasonably large, I think it's safe to say that the Balrog was large as well.

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You need to read the whole scene, from the point where the Balrog first made an appearance onward. Tolkien never specifically says that the "wings" were real, physical wings, though they *might* have been.

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There are so many interpretations of the Balrog that there is no true answer.

Balrogs have wings.
Balrogs do not have wings.
Balrogs are the size or an average man
Balrogs are huge hulking beasts
Balrogs are red
Balrogs are black
Balrogs are smoke

All of these are true of what a Balrog looks like, if you have read all the works of Tolkien and son. I can't remember if it was Glorfindel that fought a Balrog and he only stood a size of a Man, then in Fellowship he's as big as the width of one of the sections of Moria.

-The Price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

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There may have been both winged and wingless balrogs. There were definitely both varieties of dragons.

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JRR Tolkien vaguely described the Balrog as a man-shaped spirit of fire and shadow that could change size. I thought Peter Jackson's Balrog looked like a generic video game demon monster from "Warcraft". I thought Ralph Bakshi's Balrog was weirder and creepier.

"like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater", which is how Tolkien described the Balrog, is closer to how Sauron appeared in Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit".

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Its been many years since I've seen Bakshi's version; however, IRRC, his balrog seemed far too solid and physical to me. Jackson's seemed more like a being who existed on several different planes at once.

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My biggest gripe is when they were talking about "Second Breakfast". There was never any mention of Second Breakfast in the books, so the movies from that point on are totally invalidated!

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I mean, sure...mythologically-speaking, yeah, I'd agree with you. I picture the Balrog as made of shadows, smoke, and fire - but solid more or less - a being discernible, but barely, in shape. I think it has a shroud of darkness that might house wings, and I picture it more humanoid than the Jackson or Bakshi versions portrayed.

That said, Tolkien was vague in his description and the beast might have been "man-shaped" as in "humanoid", which might or might not apply to height. A cyclops in Greek myth might be 25-30 feet tall, but still could be considered "man-shaped". The Balrog might or might not have wings, and might have varying degrees of fire and shadows and whatnot. The whip and sword are clearly stated, but aside from those, it's artistic license time!

As for the film, I think Jackson needed a shorthand way to show the audience what kind of threat this creature was and couldn't count on the audience knowing the lore of Tolkien backwards and forwards. If a two metre high guy in spiky armour with smoke and fire around him showed up, people might think, "cool". If a two or three storey monster shows up with a skeletal-beast head and giant wings, people think, "uh-oh". And, thanks to the wings and fire and the exact inspiration on the head, they also think, "that's a demon from Hell," and that's what Jackson needed. He needed a big, firey climactic midpoint to make us believe that they were in t-r-o-u-b-l-e, and that's what he did.

So, from a lore stance, maybe not the best, most "accurate" portrait (even if that's a vaguery itself), but from a filmmaking perspective, I think he hit the nail more or less on the head.

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