MovieChat Forums > The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) Discussion > Was there a reason Elrond didn't force t...

Was there a reason Elrond didn't force the ring from Isildur?

posted 7 years ago by Cursedchild13
13 replies | jump to latest

I know the real answer is if he did that that there'd be no movie, so save your breath if that's your answer. But was there ever an in movie explanation? Elrond knew how dangerous the ring was. He knew how it needed to be destroyed to kill Sauron forever. When Isildur refused to destroy it, why not attack him and take the ring and throw it in himself? Or even kill Isildur if it came to that? Throw Isildur in with the ring. Did he underestimate how powerful Sauron was and how he could return in the future? Did he not realize just how powerful the ring was until much later?

[–] Otaku-sempai 7 years ago

The choice of free will was important to Tolkien and therefor it was important in Middle-earth. Isildur had the right to make that decision for himself, right or wrong.

"Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved." - T. Isabella

[–] Harold_of_Whoa 7 years ago

Elrond knew how dangerous the ring was.

No. He 'had a bad feeling about it' and thought it would be a better idea to destroy the Ring than keep. Up until that point, no one had ever had the Ring but Sauron, so the case file on all the corrupting effects, not to mention the idea that Sauron's spirit would endure, was empty.

When Isildur refused to destroy it, why not attack him and take the ring and throw it in himself? Or even kill Isildur if it came to that? Throw Isildur in with the ring.

Because Elrond is not a murderer and Isildur was not doing anything to justify such an action. Full stop.

Did he underestimate how powerful Sauron was and how he could return in the future? Did he not realize just how powerful the ring was until much later?

He certainly had no way of knowing definitively.

[–] b-a-h TNT-6 7 years ago

Because Elrond is not a murderer and Isildur was not doing anything to justify such an action. Full stop.

Not to mention that killing the future king (who had also defeated Sauron) would most likely immediately cause another war, now between Elves and Men. They had just ended one, and now they're gonna have another? And all of this for what, because Elrond *suspected* that the ring would have an evil influence? Starting another bloody war right now because of a hunch would make absolutely no sense.

[–] otter 7 years ago

If Elrond had been wise enough to just give Isuldur a shove, the only living witness would have been Cirdan and Cirdan wasn't going to tell the humans that Elrond had killed their king for valid reasons. There wouldn't have been any war between elves and humans, if Cirdan had thought that Elrond deserved to face justice for that he would have dealt with it privately, later. Told him that he was a murderer and unfit to be Gil-Galad's heir, he should resign his leadership position or go over the sea or something.

No, the real reason that Elrond didn't give Isuldur a well-deserved shove was because he wasn't a murderer! (Galadriel might have, but she wasn't there.)

“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

[–] otter 7 years ago

This was never stated in the books but this is my theory:

If any of the major elf-lords had taken the ring for his or her own, they would have been able to become as Gods with all the power it would have given them, and it would inevitably have corrupted whomsoever held it. Any elf-lords who took the ring would have become a few Dark Lord.

Therefore, they didn't trust each other with the damn thing, even if the intent was to destroy it. So they left it in the hands of a human who couldn't touch it without trying his finger off, and who couldn't do anything with it but turn invisible. It was less dangerous there, almost as good as using a hobbit as it's carrier.

“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

[–] dijomaja-382-516639 7 years ago

"This was never stated in the books..."

Well, yes, a couple of times in pretty much those words.

As for the 2nd statement it wasn't "left" with anyone. For 3,00 years it was believed to be lost and that much is clear even from the film.

[–] otter 7 years ago

The Unfinished Tales pointed out that I sulfur died midway between Galadriel's home in Lorien, and Thranduil's home in the Greenwood.

Now, do you think those two would even trust each other to look for the one ring?

“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

[–] palisade-1 7 years ago

I've posted this link before, but the OP may find it both amusing and informative.

http://hubpages.com/entertainment/elrond-isildur

It's an engagingly written but clear exposition of the background and the reasons why Elrond didn't interfere with Isildur.

[–] Tuor7 7 years ago

Read the link. It's pretty accurate (and amusing) and gives a clear enough view to those who just want the answer without getting caught up in all the trivia surrounding it. If the OP wants any sort of further explanation than that, he's welcome to ask.

[–] magpie930 7 years ago

bumping a worthy thread for the final week.

[–] MAGolding (1096) 6 years ago

I don't think that Elrond took Isildur into the fire mountain in the book. The last combat between Elendil and Gil-Galad, assisted by Isildur, Elrond, and Cirdan on one side, and Sauron on the other, was on the slopes of Mount Doom, presumably in full view of the armies of Elves and Men.

Only Elrond and Cirdan were close enough to see that Isildur picked up The Ring, and they didn't shout loud enough for the armies to hear what they discussed. But if Elrond and Cirdan had fought Isildur the soldiers in both armies would have noticed it and a civil war might have erupted in the moment of victory.

I suspect that instead of asking Isildur to follow him into the tunnel in the volcano and then asking him to toss The Ring into the lava, Elrond told Isildur out on the slops of Mount Doom that destroying The Ring would be a good idea and Isildur said he would keep The Ring. After Isildur's refusal Elrond would have no reason to go inside the dangerous and sinister tunnel and Isildur would not have accepted an invitation to go in with Elrond - The Ring would make Isildur suspect Elrond intended foul play.

I don't know if there is any canonical proof in the books that Elrond and Isildur never went inside the mountain, but there is certainly no evidence that I remember that they ever entered the mountain.

Elrond and Cirdan didn't know what evils would come from not destroying The Ring, and they were comrades in arms with Elendil and his son Isildur for seven years in the siege of Barad-dur. They had just gone through a terrible and almost unwinnable combat and suffered the trauma of seeing their king Gil-Galad and their great ally Elendil killed, and were experiencing the euphoria of unexpected victory and also post-combat exhaustion and were not in the mood to quarrel with their comrade Isildur - who had just seen his father killed - about their vague misgivings of trouble.

[–] McQualude (4231) 6 years ago

They were kings, it would have been war between elves and men.

[–] BrunoAntony (1198) 6 years ago

1) It would have meant a war between men and elves
2) Elrond didn't want to touch The Ring after seeing Isildur turn evil after 5-seconds of contact with it.
3) I can't remember where it was written, but taking The Ring by force would have unpredictable side-effects on the Ring-Bearer. It's why Frodo was able to fight Gollum equally at Mount Doom despite being completely exhausted from his journey.

Basically, Elrond and Isildur were both taken off-guard by how powerful The Ring was and what would happen if it latched on to one of the leaders / strongest warriors. Up until the destruction of Sauron's physical form, nobody else had every worn The Ring.