Hard to believe there was a time when somebody like Omar Sharif could be a movie star in Hollywood.
In this movie, practically all of the Egyptian parts are played by white Americans (Kevin J. O'Connor), white South Africans (Arnold Vosloo), white Israelis (Oded Fehr, Aharon IpalΓ©), Indians (Eric Avari), Venezuelans (Patricia Velasquez) or Persians (Omid Djalili).
If there are any Arabs in the movie at all, they're all relegated to background parts.
So what, they all looked right for the part. Europe is also ethnically diverse, but no one complains when a Norwegian actor plays an Italian character. Or how about Omar Sharif playing Europeans or white Americans?
Btw, Beni, played by Kevin J. O'Connor, was supposed to be Hungarian.
There is so much mixing in the area that Israelis, Arabs, Persians (Iranians), Iraqis, and Egyptians all can look like any of the above. Also, although 'race' is a man-made construct, under that construct Arabs, Persians, Israelis, Iraqis and Egyptians are Caucasian.
shareThat is false
shareNot false at all.
shareIt is entirely false.
shareNo, it's not. People in the Middle East are Caucasoid and some can certainly look like the other. In a country like Egypt there's overlap with the Negroid race, of course.
shareThis is mostly due to mixing in Europe in recent years. Back in the '20s, when this movie is set, the differences would have been more pronounced.
shareNow how does mixing in Europe change the population of the Middle East???
Some people from the countries the other poster mentioned can certainly look like each other.
Now how does mixing in Europe change the population of the Middle East???
"Why would you assume I said it does?"
Because we're talking about the people in the Middle East, not Europe. Why else bring up Europe?
Egyptians are also caucasoid, although there's mixing with the negroid race.
Because we're talking about the people in the Middle East, not Europe. Why else bring up Europe?
Egyptians are also caucasoid, although there's mixing with the negroid race.
No, we were NOT talking about Europe. We were talking about the different peoples in the Middle East looking like each other.
"Arab" is not a race. Arabs fall under the caucasoid race.
No, we were NOT talking about Europe. We were talking about the different peoples in the Middle East looking like each other.
You replied to a post of mine referring to boxerrebellion's post, not the OP. He mentioned that mixing in the Middle East had the result that all the different people there could look like the ethnicities mentioned by the OP: white Israelis, Persians, Indians (Parsi, actually), South Africans, Venezuelans and white Americans (although the OP was not right about that, by the way). Nothing to do with Europe, let alone recent mixing in Europe. You are being very confusing.
The reason a European and a Middle Easterner could look alike is because they both belong to the caucasoid race, not necessarily because of any mixing in Europe in recent years.
boxerrebellion said Arabs, Persians, Israelis, Iraqis and Egyptians are caucasian - which has never been the case. Not since the lithic ages, anyway. answer777 correctly said that that was false. Then you said it was not false at all. Then I said it was entirely false. Et cetera. The reason why white American actors can might away with portraying Arabs has to do with mixing in the West, meaning we look more like them these days - rather than the other way around.
Of course, a cursory glance at the cast reveals that the actors portraying Arabs aren't white - except for Arnold Vosloo who played Imhotep, and Kevin J. O'Connor, who played Beni. But apart from them, we have
Erick Avari (Indian) who played Dr. Terrence Bey
Omid Djalili (Iranian) who played the warden
Aharon Ipale (Moroccan) who played Pharao Seti I (would have made more sense to have a white guy playing him and an Arab playing Imhotep, but there you go)
Oded Ferh (Israeli) who played Ardeth Bay
Again, you're wrong. Arabs, Persians, Israelis and Egyptians are classified under the caucasoid race (although not all Egyptians). And thanks to Arab invasions, they look a lot like each other.
"The reason why white American actors can might away with portraying Arabs has to do with mixing in the West"
One, most of the ancestors of white people in America arrived before the recent mixing in Europe. Two, the only white actor portraying a Middle Easterner in this movie is a South African who is not even mixed (Beni is Hungarian). And that's the case with a lot of other movies. Lots of non-European, non-mixed actors playing Arabs. So nothing to do with recent mixing in Europe.
IpalΓ© was Jewish, Avari is of Parsi extraction.
You are using "caucasoid" as they did in the 19th, which is no longer held as a scientific classification. When people use "caucasian" today, it is to denote European white, sometimes including Eastern Europeans (Slavs), sometimes not. But never Arabs or Egyptians.
One, most of the ancestors of white people in America arrived before the recent mixing in Europe.
Two, the only white actor portraying a Middle Easterner in this movie is a South African who is not even mixed (Beni is Hungarian).
Lots of non-European, non-mixed actors playing Arabs. So nothing to do with recent mixing in Europe.
Oh hi, Keelai!
Let's for a moment forget that the division of humans in neat racial groups is rather outdated. Caucasoid actually is the same as Caucasian and still used by anthropologists today. I chose to use the term Caucasoid, because in the US Caucasian is incorrectly used to refer to white people of European extraction only. Arabs may not be considered "white", but they are certainly considered Caucasoid/ Caucasian by scientists. So let's move on from this point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
"Except the same sort of mixing has been going on in the US as well."
Except that the only white American the OP referred to is not mixed, so I'm not sure why you're using this as an argument.
"Hungarians were white, last I checked."
Okay, now I know you're Keelai. That's my point. Like I said, the white American mentioned by the OP played a Hungarian, not an Arab. So we can scratch him off the list.
"What I said was that recent mixing in Europe (and the US) is the reason whyΒ mostlyΒ white Westerners may resemble people from Africa, the Mid-East or Asia Minor. But you wouldn't mistake a non-mixed Scotsman for an Arab"
No, what you said was that boxerrebellion's claim that Middle Easterners are Caucasian and are able to pass for the ethnicities mentioned by the OP due to mixing in the Middle East was "entirely false", because instead it's due to recent mixing in Europe. Since most of those ethnicities are also Middle Eastern and they're all Caucasian, he certainly has a point. And since none of the people involved are mixed, your point is moot.
And there are certainly non-mixed Scotsmen who could pass for someone in the Middle East. There are many different people in the Middle East and not every Scotsman is a redhead. Not sure if you've ever heard of Dark Celts and Black Irish.
Oh hi, Keelai!
Let's for a moment forget that the division of humans in neat racial groups is rather outdated. Caucasoid actually is the same as Caucasian and still used by anthropologists today. I chose to use the term Caucasoid, because in the US Caucasian is incorrectly used to refer to white people of European extraction only. Arabs may not be considered "white", but they are certainly considered Caucasoid/ Caucasian by scientists. So let's move on from this point.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
"Except the same sort of mixing has been going on in the US as well."
Except that the only white American the OP referred to is not mixed, so I'm not sure why you're using this as an argument.
Okay, now I know you're Keelai. That's my point. Like I said, the white American mentioned by the OP played a Hungarian, not an Arab. So we can scratch him off the list.
No, what you said was that boxerrebellion's claim that Middle Easterners are Caucasian and are able to pass for the ethnicities mentioned by the OP due to mixing in the Middle East was "entirely false", because instead it's due to recent mixing in Europe. Since most of those ethnicities are also Middle Eastern and they're all Caucasian, he certainly has a point.
And since none of the people involved are mixed, your point is moot.
And there are certainly non-mixed Scotsmen who could pass for someone in the Middle East. There are many different people in the Middle East and not every Scotsman is a redhead. Not sure if you've ever heard of Dark Celts and Black Irish.
Uhuh, sure.
Did you actually read the link?
Yes, like I said, it's an outdated concept. But those anthropologists you refer to don't make the distinction between "Caucasoid" and "Causasian" like you're making, they don't use those terms at all. The article even mentions how they disagree with the term being used for "white". However, they would never deny the physical and genetical similarities between Europeans and Middle Easterners. That's why it's still used in forensic anthropology.
Point is, white European and American actors being able to pass for Middle Easterners has more to do with them being closely related than with recent mixing in the West (which you exaggerate).
No, you keep moving the goalposts. It's about YOU saying that the other poster's claim was entirely false. You bring up stuff like recent mixing in Europe (then it became the US) and the definition of the term Caucasian. Instead of trying to stray any further, just return to the original point. What's "entirely false" about boxerrebellion's claims?
And we can scratch Kevin J. O'Connor off the list as a white American passing for a Middle Easterner, because that's not the case, he played a Hungarian. And of course the actors in the movie matter. When else do we see other ethnicities passing for Arabs? And I was referring to mixed Europeans/Americans you mentioned. Arnold Vosloo is not the product of any recent mixing.
Yes, like I said, it's an outdated concept.
But those anthropologists you refer to don't make the distinction between "Caucasoid" and "Causasian" like you're making,
they don't use those terms at all.
However, they would never deny the physical and genetical similarities between Europeans and Middle Easterners. That's why it's still used in forensic anthropology.
Point is, white European and American actors being able to pass for Middle Easterners has more to do with them being closely related than with recent mixing in the West (which you exaggerate).
No, you keep moving the goalposts. It's about YOU saying that the other poster's claim was entirely false.
No, you keep moving the goalposts. It's about YOU saying that the other poster's claim was entirely false. You bring up stuff like recent mixing in Europe (then it became the US) and the definition of the term Caucasian. Instead of trying to stray any further, just return to original point. What's "entirely false" about boxerrebellion's claims?
And we can scratch Kevin J. O'Connor off the list as a white American passing for a Middle Easterner, because that's not the case, he played a Hungarian.
And of course the actors in the movie matter.
When else do we see other ethnicities passing for Arabs?
And Arnold Vosloo is not the product of any recent mixing.
I said in my previous post that the division in neat racial groups is outdated. However, the term is still being used in anthropology today and when it is, it refers to Europeans as well as those in the Middle East and North Africa.
You made a distinction between Caucasoid, a 19th century scientific classification, and Caucasian, a modern term to refer to white Europeans.
You like to twist my words, huh? I said that the anthropologists you refer to (those who do not use Caucasoid), don't use Caucasian either. And never would an anthropologist use it to refer to simply "white" people, especially not a forensic anthropologist to whom skin color is irrelevant. You must be thinking of the classifications of the US census bureau. The article already mentioned the objections to those by scientists.
I think we can safely conclude that boxerrebellion's claim that the mentioned ethnicities are Caucasian is not false. Even those anthropologists who don't use the term wouldn't say it's false, they would just prefer to narrow it down to ancestry. So let's move on from that.
If you say it's more likely that a white European could pass for a Middle Easterner due to recent mixing rather than to both being closely related, then you exaggerate. If you say the differences would've been more pronounced back in the 20s, you certainly seem to think the extent of recent mixing is pretty significant. I don't think you realize how diverse Europe has always been. And I don't think you realize how diverse the Middle East is either. Just Google for blond haired and blue eyed people in that region.
Actually, it wasn't all that clear if you thought the white people in this movie were passable as Middle Easterners. Your first reply to me seemed to suggest they were, but only due to recent mixing in Europe. But I bring up Vosloo again to point him out as the only white actor trying to pass for a Middle Easterner (and not even an Arab at that), so it's confusing why you would even bring up recent mixing in Europe to prove boxerrebellion's claim is "entirely false".
The context only keeps changing because you keep changing it. I already suggested going back to the original point: what's "entirely false" about boxerrebellion's claims?
"Not only is thereΒ notΒ such mixing in the area in question"
What kind of mixing are you talking about?
Again, you are SO wrong to claim that to anthropologists "Caucasian=white". 99% of them would have a huge problem with that, skin color is irrelevant.
The plan was to get Arab actors, but the producers were afraid the movie would "bomb"...
Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.share
Um, Oded Fehr and Aharon Ipale are as Middle Eastern as Omid Djalili. Just because they're Israelis that doesn't mean they're automatically "white". They look like Israeli Arabs, or at least ethnic Jews from the Middle East. If that's white to you, then I guess Persians would be white too.
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Since Arabs are Caucasian, they are 'white'.
shareThey did not cast real Arabs because of their B.O. The studio feared the other actors noses would fall off increasing the studios deductible .
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Hmmmmm.....I don't care.
Γbung macht den Meister
It would've cost them alot more, & at least they filmed in Morocco. Most of Hollywood is doing all of their filming in Canada for movies & tv shows these days, think X-Files & Stargate SG-1.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/loveunderlaw
"Arab" has no phenotype because it is a culture, not a race. Any person that speaks Arabic as their first language is considered Arab, and in places like Tunesia this could mean blond or red hair with blue eyes.
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