MovieChat Forums > Welcome to Sarajevo (1997) Discussion > As much as I enjoy preachy one dimension...

As much as I enjoy preachy one dimensional films


Did anyone else find this movie pretentious and inaccurate? When Woody Harrelson's character said something like "If Muslims were doing this to Christians then the US would do something" I almost fell out of my chair. The implication that the US was somehow unconcerned with the outcome or even on the Christian Serbs' side is impossible to make unless one is willfully ignorant of the history of the Balkan wars. While the siege of Sarajevo was brutal the Croats and Bosnian Muslims were equally brutal to many Serb civilians. Even more grating, especially given the above quote, is the fact that the Serbs were seen as the enemy by the West from the very start, and while the Croats recieved money and arms from the West and the Muslims from the Arab world, the Serbs were left almost entirely on their own. In the end, even Milosevic turned against the Bosnian Serbs for the sake of a peace agreement that sold them out. A small number of Russian volunteers did help the Serbs, though many Germans joined their Ustase allies in fighting for Croatia and the Muslims had plenty of help from foreign jihadis. Hardly a fair fight, and hardly the one sided slaughter this movie and the Western media make it out to be. I might forgive this movie its bias if the Serbs weren't cardboard villians, there only to make the American audience feel guilty for not intervening on the side of the Muslims right away. Its a clumsy morality play that suceeds only in pointing a finger at the West for all the wrong reasons.

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"While the siege of Sarajevo was brutal..."

Also brutal for Bosnia's Muslim population were events that took place in Srebrenica, Bijeljina, Zvornik, Visegrad, Banja Luka, Foca, Prijedor, Kozarac, Zepa, Gorazde...(not to mention the Serb-run concentration camps of Omarska, Keraterm, Trnopolje...) - it's quite a long list. Basically, we're talking about any part of northern or eastern Bosnia that was "cleansed" of its non-Serb population.

Your portrayal of Bosnian Serbs as set-upon victims ("the Serbs were left almost entirely on their own") is not supported by Serbian leaders who have already talked openly about the financial & military assistance they provided for Bosnian Serb forces. Borisav Jovic, Serbia's representative on the Federal Presidency, described in a television interview the "fast one" he and Milosevic pulled in order to give Bosnian Serbs full access to the Yugoslavian Army - in 1992, one of the largest military machines in Europe (which is why the international arms embargo kept the Bosnian Serb military advantage locked in place). Serb nationalist Vojislav Seselj has also openly discussed the requests he received from Milosevic to send his militias into Bosnia; Seselj claims it was "my fighters" who ensured Bosnian Serb success early in the war. Jose Maria Mendiluce, one of the top officials for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, was traveling between Belgrade and Sarajevo when the attack on the Bosnian town of Zvornik began (led by Yugoslav army units and Arkan's Tigers); Mendiluce was in a position to witness artillery fire emanating from the Serbian side of the Drina River. "I even saw smoke coming from the cannons on the Serbian side," he noted.

But WELCOME TO SARAJEVO is chiefly about Sarajevo, which was surrounded by Serb artillery from April 1992 to September 1995 (a cease-fire went into effect in October 1995, but the siege wasn't officially declared "over" until February 29, 1996). And this encirclement forced Sarajevans to withstand not just a daily barrage of bullets, shells and mortars, but also life without electricity, water, medical care and adequate food supplies. For three-and-a-half years a 20th century European city was forced into a deadly, stone-age existence, and the international community did NOTHING to stop it. And people throughout the world couldn't understand why nothing was being done. There were endless theories, and one of them - as expressed by Woody Harrelson's character - felt it was because there was little concern in Europe and the West for the suffering of a predominantly Muslim population. And not surprisingly, people wondered what would have happened if the situation had been reversed - would Europe and the West have stood by & done nothing if Muslims had laid siege to a predominantly Christian city in Europe? We'll never know the answer, but it's a fair question.

What we DO know is that the siege was allowed to continue. And at the end of 1994, a stark obituary appeared on the pages of the NY Times, bordered in black. Signed by "over seventy members of the Western world's political and cultural elite" (as reported by Peter Maass in LOVE THY NEIGHBOR), the words were simple -


IN MEMORIUM

OUR COMMITMENTS,
PRINCIPLES, AND MORAL VALUES
DIED: BOSNIA, 1994
ON THE OCCASION OF THE 1,000TH DAY
OF THE SIEGE OF SARAJEVO.


PS: As for the depiction of the Serbs in WELCOME TO SARAJEVO as "cardboard villains," the only major character of the film who's Serbian is Mrs. Savic (the woman who runs the orphanage) - and she's clearly portrayed as a caring and compassionate individual.

MRS. SAVIC: Everyone must know we are dying. So - tell them. Keep on telling them, until they will move us.

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...(not to mention the Serb-run concentration camps of Omarska, Keraterm, Trnopolje...) - it's quite a long list.

I'm not going to argue with you. You are entitled to your opinion. However, as a matter of fact, the propaganda about concentration camps has been repeatedly and soundly discreditted. Look it up. Here is just one link:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/BOSNIA_PHOTO/bosnia.html

By the way I am not a Serb nor am I saying that Serb armed forces didn't kill civillians. But lets try to seperate truth from media invented fiction.

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I'm not going to argue with you, either.

But here's a report from the Human Rights Watch, Helsinki Division, that confirms the existence of Trnopolje & the abuses that took place there -


http://members.tripod.com/~UnconqueredBosnia/TrnopoljeHelsinki.html


And as long as we're getting into disclaimers, my ethnic heritage isn't Serb, Croat, or Bosnian Muslim. But I've made frequent trips to Bosnia - I even spent some time in Omarska last year - and I know for a fact that Serb-run concentration camps existed; they weren't, as you refer to them, "media invented fiction." And there were also camps run by Bosnian Croats (Dretelj) and Bosnian Muslims (Celebici). But don't try and tell me that Serb-run concentration camps were "propaganda," because their existence HASN'T been "repeatedly and soundly discredited" - not by any reputable sources, at least.

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[deleted]

People who were outside looking in might never be able to fully understand what has happened. I certainly cannot believe what major Serbian forces said about Bosniaks killing themselves. Yeah, like that really happened. It was never said that the enitre nation of people was bad it just that those who participated (Serbian Army) in brutal killings of innocent people were cold bloded. This movie portrays that. It shows how people can be blinded and cruel.

"Nothing is ours except time." -M.A.Seneca-

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@kenan12345
Are you for real? Arab countries couldn`t menage to get anything to Bosnia? Why?
There are things like plains you know. And Albania is very near, not to mention Kosovo which have strong terrorist network.

Are you trying to say that mujahedins are natives in Balkans? Where did they came from?


House Terrorism Task Force GOP Research 04MAY94 "what is less known
is the role played by the Bosnian government and military in instigating the
conflict and in efforts to draw the West, particularly the United States,
into the war generally" 01SEP92 "center of the Iranian system in Europe is
Bosnia-Herzegovina's President, Alia Izetbegovic, "a fundamentalist Muslim
and a member of the Fida'iyan-e Islam organization.. recognized the
leadership of Ayatollah Khomeni and maintained close cooperation.. UN
investigation concluded that.. strikes against civilians, that had galvanized
public opinion.. were in fact 'staged' for the Western media by the Muslims
in order to dramatize.. all these cases, Serbian forces were out of range"
((Opponents report have shown their true antiSemitic nature by their
attacks on author Yossef Bodansky)) SF Chronicle 05APR94 (Eric Geiger)


While Palestinians serve as volunteers fighting Serbs in the Bosnian Army, they
are being educated how to commit terror acts in Israel.. testimony was given
by Palestinian taken prisoner near the city of Tuzla in Bosnia.' 13May94
WASHINGTON (Reuter)

An Iranian air force transport plane carrying at least
60 tons of explosives landed in Zagreb last week as part of a deal between
Croatia and Bosnia to renew military cooperation against the Serbs, the
Washington Post reported.. conspicuous violation of the arms embargo.. also
carrying other raw materials for weapons productions.. Wash Times 18May95.

Bill Gertz 'Croatia is allowing Iran to use an island on its Adriatic coast
as a transit point for weapons shipments to Bosnian Muslims, U.S.
intelligence officials said.. Krk Island.. rifles, grenades, rocket-propelled
grenades and night-vision.. establishing small groups of Bosnian Islamic
loyalists similar to the terrorist group Hezbollah.. expand Iranian
operations in Europe and circumvent the U.S. embargo on Iran by purchasing
goods and technology covertly' Observer, 15 May 1994 John Sweeney

Telegraph, 17 August 1995 Julian Nundy FRENCH security services
believe that Islamic fundamentalists from Algeria have set up a network
across Europe with fighters trained in Afghan guerrilla camps and southern
France while some have been tested in combat in Bosnia. The conservative
daily Le Figaro said yesterday that the fundamentalists often used apparently
charitable organisations to recruit new members.. laid in the Albanian
capital of Tirana in 1992..

Times21Oct94AnthLoyd.. Tunisian fighter.. Bosnia's hills.. "We are
coming here to die, not to leave. That is why we shall win.".. 1992, they
were led by Abdul Aziz, a red-bearded Saudi.. groundwork for their deployment
in the central Bosnian town of Travnik, historically the seat of the Ottoman
Grand Vizier.. veteran of the Afghan war and one of the main figures behind
an international 'star chamber' of Mujahidin that takes its holy war to
far-flung theatres ranging from the Philippines to Kashmir. Mr Aziz has since
left Bosnia, first for Albania and latterly Pakistan. He was succeeded for a
time by Abul Hariz, a Libyan, and more recently, by a new 'emir'. Between
400 and 600 fighters.. UN source in Zenica said: "Five years from now, there
will be factionalised groups in this place: Lebanese, Afghan-style gloups,
very radical because of what they've been through and the homelands they
cannot return to. It's the ideal location from which to launch terrorist
action in Europe, with authorities who will not, for a long time, be strong
enough to control it."

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agreed. Hilarious quote from Harrelson, whoever wrote that should be shot.

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[deleted]

Errrrmm... Jews?!?!?

Puhleeeease!

And what about desire of Serbian people in Croatia to stay in Yugoslavia, contrary to Croatian wishes to have a country of their own?

"Serbs claimed Croatia..." ... maybe because they were there for, I don't know like THREE HUNDRED YEARS. And they claimed only places they were living for generations.

And now, there are no Serbs in these areas. In fact, a city of Knin where there was over 40,000 people, now there's only few thousand Croats who came after war. A barren land.

Try Wikipedia on Yugoslav wars. Until you read it thorogh and through, you can not make such riddicilous claims such as Serbs killing Jews (just look up Jasenovac), and "they didnt do anything to them before the war" and "Serbs were aggresors and horrible butchers".

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@aactrooper

same lies as on Savior board. steve-1018 got you there (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120070/board/thread/32322210?p=2), so you run to another movie board. You are a sad little liar.

You even spread your hate on Serbian zombie (Zone of the Dead) movie board
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1191971/board/flat/109231147?d=136329319&p=2#136329319
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1191971/board/flat/102353363?p=1

You are really a sick person.

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SkyMarshall7 has got to be the dumbest person I've come across on the Internet, and that's no small feat.

I salute you!

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[deleted]

Saw this when it was out for a couple weeks. West side Manhattan art movie
theater at the time. Packed at @5pm so fairly serious, like word of mouth, film people. Overall reaction was nothing special.
Me and lady friend didn't rave about it. More like just trying to get at what the heck kind of tone this sort of mess had. Guess we were looking for something else than what we got.
Only film by Winterbottom I've seen. Only mentioning about Welcone because I was checking up on his new one from Thompson book "The Killer Inside Me".
That one has a low rating here too. June 18 opening.
Thompson had some good books for filming like "The Getaway" and "The Grifters".
NY Times had a write up on Killer June 3.
My friend and I have a wide range of taste & latitude for films but this one
just left us cold at the time. Don't know how I'd feel today but rarely shown on TV or revival circuit.






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what a big load of massive bullsh....
The Serbs firstly had all the arms from the Yugoslavian army. That's why they managed to occupy parts of Croatia for 4 years until the Croatian army freed their territories in 1995. The Croats didn't get much help from neither the West nor anyone else, in fact the world started to react properly when Bosnia was attacked. The Serbs did also get weapons from the Russians btw. And don't you forget who the attacker was in this war - not the Croats, not the Muslim, but solely the Serbs.

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and how the f... do you call the Croats that defended their country from the Chetnik aggressor Ustashe? Typical national serbian bullcrap! You were the ONLY aggressors in this war, everyone else defended themselves. And no, Germany did not help Croatia with weapons. They acknowledged their independence like most other countries and the Serbs didnt like it. But of course you need to bring WW2 references because you have no valid arguments. You Chetniks should finally take responsibility for what you did.

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