Felt bad for Cal


I think Cal got a raw deal. He obviously was in love with Rose, despite his elitist attitude, which, quite frankly, he was raised to have. He made various appeals to her to let him in her heart in spite of her constant cold demeanor toward him. i don't blame him for his anger and hostility toward Jack when she chose, over him, some strange homeless guy she just met. He did his best to impress her and impress upon her he would always take care of her and that she would want for nothing. Can you blame him?

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I also felt bad for Cal. He didn't know that Rose didn't want to marry him before she started cheating on him. Ruth wanted Rose to marry Cal to improve their financial situation. Rose went along with it and later decided that she could not handle getting married to Cal. I'm sure that Cal didn't know that Rose didn't want to marry him and that she was only marrying him to help improve her and Ruth's financial situation. Cal is a bit of a snob and little bit controlling, but he isn't that bad. He didn't get mean with Rose until she started cheating on him. I don't blame Cal for knocking over the table and slapping Rose. It is not the right thing to do, but I don't blame him because I can see how he would be hurt after she started cheating on him. Rose should not have ended her engagement by cheating on Cal. I can see why Cal would not understand why Rose wanted to be with Jack. He was homeless and she only knew him for a few days. Jack would not be good at financially supporting Rose unless he decided to get a real job instead of drawing naked women. Rose should have just called off her engagement with Cal instead of cheating on him. Rose could have handled the situation better.

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I will quote my response to your comment in the other thread:

do you seriously believe it was easy for a woman to just break off her engagement back in those days? The era they lived in was very different to how society is now...back then, women were merely just treated as token possessions for men, being sold to rich men for money, they had no say in how they should live their lives, they had no freedom. Like most young girls and women of her time, Rose was basically 'sold' to Cal for money through their engagement, Rose had absolutely no say in her life, and barely given any choices, her life was all arranged by the parents. If it was so "easy" for women to just break off an engagement back then, don't you think Rose would've dumped Cal long ago? Do you seriously believe Rose would've "willingly" put herself in misery? It's precisely because Rose had no choice in the matter, she was locked in that engagement with Cal, that she felt trapped in her own life, and turned to Jack for solace, intimacy and freedom.
The only other way Rose would've been able to break off her engagement with Cal is if Cal were the one to change his mind and break off the engagement, it was not Rose's decision to make, back then, it was generally the men who made the decisions, the women just obeyed their men. Actually, maybe that's why Rose was acting cold towards Cal in the movie? Maybe she intentionally wanted to make Cal hate her so that he would change his mind about her and break off their engagement (which is what Rose wanted)?
Rose was cunning and feisty for her time, after she met Jack, she became determined to break free from Cal, her mother and her miserable life, and that's when she started to defy Cal and Ruth.


also, do you seriously believe Rose cared about money? If she did, do you seriously think she would've chosen the poor penniless Jack over the wealthy Cal? And btw Jack didn't just draw naked women, he drew anything or anyone he saw or would pay him money to draw them. If you had actually paid attention, there were more drawings of non-naked people in Jack's folder than naked women.

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lets set the line here ok Jack was just 17 and he was a kid that was just doing nothing that wrong except gambling and boarding a shop with out papers. He ddi tell rose he understood how the world works yes there is greed power and corruption in the world but he was not all bad just needed a bit direction like she did. As for Cal Cal was a powerful man but come on a little old to marry a 17 year old girl. Cal was jut not thinking of his actions. Ruth on the other hand was caring more about her life then her daughter. Remember how her face was like "I hate it here" she was so close to taking her life. So why call Rose the villain when she is the one that wants out of this mess. Ruth should have just taken Cal her daughter could just had a life on her own.

Bond James Bond

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Let's enlighten you to the realities of the time. For one, Cal was not too old for Rose especially considering the time period. Cal was at most 10-12 years older than Rose, which was perfectly normal. If you recall the age issue was scandalous when it was huge age gaps as was between JJ Astor and his 18 year old wife, who was you enough to be his daughter. Second, Rose's position and Ruth's actions were very of the time. People married to expand fortunes and combine great house's. Rose came across as a very weak person to even consider suicide for .....what? not liking the aristocratic lifestyle and rejecting a man she didn't even seem to give a chance to. Ruth, for her part, didn't know Rose was suicidal, who would think the girl would consider such actions? From her perspective, Rose was being oppositional for no good reason. It was a standard of the time and Rose could have made her situation better but it was all or nothing in her head.

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Cal was a jerk,

Bond James Bond

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Rose was an inconsiderate whore.

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ScrystaLz, I think you are a little bit misinformed. It is true that women did not have as many rights as they do these days, but they were started to get more rights by 1912. Women could vote in some states by 1912. They would not be able to vote in federal elections and in all states until 1920, but things were starting to improve for them by then. I think it was in the 1870s and 1880s that married women were given property rights in most states. In 1912, and even for a long time after that, it would be harder for women to find a decent job, but they could do some things. They could be teachers, secretaries, waitresses, saloon girls, work at a shop or store, act on the stage or in early movies if they had talent. They could also own their own businesses. A few women were doctors and lawyers in this time period.

Rose was not sold to Cal That is exaggerating her situation way too much. Women were not sold to wealthy men. It is true that some wealth families arranged for their kids other wealthy people, but their kids did have the right to say no. Rose was afraid to say no because many wealthy people back then arranged for their kids to marriage other wealthy people and if they sometimes did not marry who their parents wanted them to marry, they were sometimes cut off from inheriting the family money and they were sometimes disowned. It was a social pressure, not a matter of the parents having the absolute power to marry their kids off to other wealthy people. It was 1912, not the middle ages. 1912 was not part of the middle ages or dark ages. I think that Rose was not sure what she was going to do if she refused to marry Cal. It was harder for women to find decent jobs back then and Rose did not have very much confidence in herself before she met Jack. Besides that, I doubt that Ruth would disown Rose or prevent her from inheriting what was left of the family money. Ruth would be upset if Rose refused to marry Cal when he proposed to her, but she would probably get over it and might decide to marry someone rich instead of Rose if Rose would be too difficult about marrying someone else rich.

In a way, I think that Rose liked money. She did not mind spending Cal's money on expensive paintings and new fancy dresses and hats. Judging from Rose's pictures at the end of the picture, she enjoyed spending her husbands money on going on a bunch of trips. Some of those she may have payed for herself before she married him, but I bet she did not mind spending her husband's money on whatever she wanted such as traveling, new dresses and hats, and art supplies. She liked Jack because he helped her improve her self esteem about thinking that she can't do things on her own. She also liked him because he also liked art like she did. She also thought that he would be a good way to get away from Cal and her mother instead of just calling off her engagement with Cal herself. You are right. Rose did not love money, but that does not mean that she disliked it either. She just wanted a lifestyle change and do what she wants to do. That doesn't mean that she did not appreciate the things that money can buy.

I also know that Jack drew other things besides naked women. I did pay attention during the movie. I have not seen the movie in a few years. I'm not sure if it is true that he had more drawings of other things besides naked women than he did of naked women, but he had a lot of drawings of naked women. If Jack lived, I don't think that him and Jack would stay together for very long. It is true that Rose wanted to live a more adventurous life, but if Jack could not keep a decent job and they lived under a bridge, she would get sick of that. They could be friends, but if he stayed poor and lived under a bridge, I doubt that she would marry him. You are also wrong about the man only having the power to call off an engagement. Women could also call off an engagement and women also had the right to say no if a man asked her to marry him. If you are saying that it was usually a man that called off an engagement back then, that may be true, but women could call off an engagement if they wanted to and I'm sure some women back then did call off their engagements.

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from what i remember, cal is shown as being quite villainous, all he needs is a hat with 'villain' written on it. he is an absurdly exaggerated character.

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I disagree. I don't think he was in love with Rose at all. He seemed to only care about money and appearances. He criticized her taste in paintings, rudely dissed Jack's work without seeing it despite his half-assed apology which I'm sure he only did because he was in front of a bunch of people.

I don't think he was trying to impress her either. He was shown to be an abusive person with the mindset that women needed to know their place. So yeah, I can blame him because he didn't handle the situation like a grown man. Even if he did actually love Rose, she clearly did not feel the same way. If he was a nice, compassionate guy, he wouldn't have continued trying to go through with the marriage. He would have let her go and let her be with someone she clearly liked....not mention he is a grown man who was engaged to a teenager. I guess at back then that was the norm but again, if he was a nice guy he would have said no or taken her feelings into consideration.

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So, you are basing the fact he was critical about the paintings he bought for Rose, who threw an equal barb back at him? He is villainous because he somewhat insulted Jacks work? God what an a-hole for him to not like his fiancées taste in art an having his own opinion.

Now, let's talk facts here. Rose throughout the whole movie was a bitch towards him while he was trying to have a connection with her. He basically would do and give her whatever she wanted AND when noting that she was feeling down tried to come to an understanding. She was cold towards him and embarrassing them in public. He only gets very angry when he discovers that she is running round with some third class punk dishonoring him. In retaliation, she leaves the nude drawing in his safe with a scathing note. Rose, totally disregarded Cals feelings only, provokes him by taking aim to his dignity and ego. She not once was shown to even give him a chance and deciding that her life was soo horrible that she decides death was a choice to consider. Cal taking Roses feeling into consideration,lol, and did she consider Cals feelings in the whole ordeal? Lastly, you speak as if he was always aware of her not wanting to marry him. But he clearly reached out to her only to be shut out.I suppose you see what you WANT to see, not what actually occurred.

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Thank goodness you are not the op. I stopped reading your bitchy rant after the first sentence of the second paragraph, though, I was already turned off to anything you had to say the minute you acted like my comment was rude.

You're not a mature, civil person and you seem to think your opinion is fact and gold. So there is no reason to actually reply to what you said. I stand by my comment. Have a good day and learn to be more reasonable towards people and disagree in a mature manner.

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Mature manner? please. Your post and view are fundamentally wrong and lacks maturity. I wasnt saying your comment was rude, stupid maybe. Stand by your comment, just know that it is wrong. Get thicker skin and stop acting like a wuss.

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My comment was my own opinion. Just because you don't agree with me or other people, doesn't make them wrong. What's stupid is how serious you are taking the fictional part of this movie and the character of Rose. If anyone is being rude, it's obviously you since you blatantly told someone to "shut the hell up" for also stating their opinion. If I need to "get a thicker skin and stop acting like a wuss" then you clearly need to take a chill pill and go outside for some hours. It's not that serious.

But anyways I'm done. There's no point in trying to reason stupid people.

There. Now you can say I'm being rude.

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I will take your advice and not reason with stupid people, I.e. YOU.

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He was the true hero of the movie. Loyal, dashing, ambitious, and protective. Jack and Rose slept around after knowing each other a few hours and disregarded a vow of engagement. Thankfully, Jack died soon thereafter and Rose had to linger on for decades without him. In the end, the senile old bat throws away something worth more than her life.


"Treasury throws founder of the Democratic Party off $20 bill, replaces with gun-toting Republican"

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i know it being a different time and all but rose should've come clean about her feelings for cal and let him know she wasn't happy. that flies in the face of the culture back then but instead she played games with him and cheated on him.

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Wow, finally someone who looks at the situation reasonably for what it was.

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Yup, a shallow, murderous, morally bankrupt a$$hole like Cal is totally a victim. People like you are worthless.

I mean, he was just raised that way. Poor guy, using an child to sneak his way onto a boat . Not showing an utter lick of humanity towards the passengers that weren't rich. Yup. poor, poor Cal.

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Who did he murder ?

Say jack never got into the ship




Was he abusive towards rose before she met jack? She never said so

I get that she didn't want to marry him but she was marrying him for his money sooooooooo let's not be all innocent.


Him not showing compassion to the lower class passengers was more of society then cal. Cal didn't go down there and lock them below decks. He didn't look down on them anymore them majority of first class panssengers

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Who did he murder ?

Say jack never got into the ship




Was he abusive towards rose before she met jack? She never said so

I get that she didn't want to marry him but she was marrying him for his money sooooooooo let's not be all innocent.


Him not showing compassion to the lower class passengers was more of society then cal. Cal didn't go down there and lock them below decks. He didn't look down on them anymore them majority of first class panssengers

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[deleted]

Thought Billy Zane gave the best performance in Titanic

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[deleted]

Yes, I blame him! I don't think he loved Rose one bit because like Tina Turner told Ike "What's love got to do with it?"

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