Felt bad for Cal - Titanic (1997) Discussion

[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

You are indeed correct, but I fear that you very true observation will be criticized on this board. From what we are shown in the film, she seemed to shut Cal out from the start without giving him a chance. I always figured she was being oppositional simply because her mother wanted her to marry him. She never said a kind word to him and what she did say we usually a jab or a sardonic remark. She was the one who put Jack in danger. What did she think was going to happen after leaving the drawing and scathing note? She laid the the foundation for all the drama that ensued.

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[–] SenoritaTorres 8 years ago

Cal was an utter *beep* but I partly agree. That would be humiliating for ANY man, and Rose was a bitch to him even before we saw him kick off at her. I still love the romance between Jack and Rose though.

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[–] Catnip86 8 years ago

It would have been nice to have so backstory.

How did they meet? How long did they know each other? Did she like him at first? Did his attitude change her attitude toward him, or did she have a bad attitude without ever giving him a chance?

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[–] lindalindgren 8 years ago

I would also be a bitch if someone tried to force me to marry someone I didn't love. I know it was a common thing back then, but I don't think the girls felt less unhappy by it just because it was common.

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

I don't know for sure whether the whole arranged marriage thing was either Ruth's idea or Cal's...but I think Ruth is the bigger villain in this case, considering how greedy and selfish of a mother Ruth was, I think it was Ruth's idea to push this whole arrange marriage on Rose's shoulders, she sold her own daughter to a wealthy man essentially. As for Cal...well, as much as I dislike him and think he's a A class jerk, but I think he merely became the unfortunate suitor that Ruth had picked for her daughter. At the end of the day, it all came down to the selfish & greedy Ruth, she was responsible for creating the whole mess to begin with once she decided to push her daughter into that arranged marriage, hence she's largely responsible for everyone's heartbreak in the movie, not just Rose's and Jack's, but also Cal's. Ruth knew Rose did not love Cal and did not want to marry him, but Ruth didn't care, she did not care about her own daughter's feelings. And I think deep down Cal probably suspected that Rose did not love him, but again, Ruth did not care, she just wanted their marriage to be done so Ruth can continue lavishing herself in the wealthy lifestyle. Ruth cared more about herself first and foremost, she put wealth and her own needs before her own daughter. Let's not say Cal, I think any wealthy man who was unfortunate enough to be picked by Ruth probably would've had the same fate as Cal...the unfortunate guy would've been doomed in the arrangement the moment Ruth started searching for a wealthy suitor for Rose...unless under some miraculous outcome that Rose falls in love with this guy and she never met Jack, but with Jack in the picture, I doubt it.
In the end, Ruth got what she deserved and that was losing her daughter, a selfish mother like her who sells her own daughter to rich men for money does not deserve to have the privileges of being a parent. Just because it was common practice for parents to sell their daughters to rich men back then, that still does NOT make it "right". It was also common during and after WWII to conduct dangerous radiation experiments on humans, but does that mean it was "right" to conduct those experiments? Absolutely not! Some innocent people died and many more suffered permanent disabilities or illnesses because of those experiments that were done to them.
Ruth may have done what was common back then, but that still does not change the fact that forcing her daughter into an arranged marriage was the wrong thing to do on her part.

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

Cal was your typical wealthy arrogant jerk who would do anything to get what he wants, and is an obvious control freak, he merely treated Rose like she was just another of his possessions. I wouldn't want to marry a guy like him either.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

Oh shut the hell up.

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[–] stillmeyou 8 years ago

Maybe...but he had her already and yet still tried to get her to open her heart to him. Tried to please her, make her happy. He wouldn't have done any of that if he only cared about her being his possession.

And, frankly, some guys can be total idiots about how to treat a woman you're in love with. He probably thought speaking for her and reprimanding her for acting like a bitch was what he was supposed to do. That that was love.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

I always figured Cal was into because she had some spunk to her, though I do think he was not expecting her to act like an ingrate in public.But yes, Rose's actions did but Jack into more jeopardy than he would have been in had she behaved like a decent person.

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

If she got on the lifeboat then jack would have only had to take care of himself and he always could. Her being so selfish is what killed jack

that's so typical of you Rose haters, always blaming Rose for everything even when it's not her fault.
Even if Rose got on that lifeboat, Jack still would've died, either he would've sunk along with the ship or froze to death in the freezing water...do you seriously believe he had any chance of survival? Even if he did he would only have a 0.99% chance of survival. He was going to die one way or another anyway, so it was better for him to die with the girl he loved, than to die alone. Would you seriously prefer to see Jack die all alone by himself among complete strangers? I'm sure he would rather die with Rose by his side, and he did.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

true, but even if Rose didn't get off the lifeboat and Jack had the door all to himself, he still would've died from the freezing weather...the only reason Rose survived was a combination of her being on the floating door AND was warmly dressed with that thick coat. If Cal had not given Rose his coat to keep her warm, Rose probably would've died too, even with her on the floating door.
Jack was wearing very little clothing and no outer clothes to keep him warm, what would you expect him to do? Go to some random guy and ask "hey man, can I borrow your coat"? It was chaotic when the ship was sinking, everyone was struggling to survive the hellish conditions; with the sinking of the ship, and the freezing weather and temperatures of the water. I doubt anyone would offer Jack their coat. Jack would've suffered severe hypothermia under such freezing conditions, so even if the freezing water did not kill him, the freezing weather certainly would.

The only way Jack would've had any chance of survival was if he found the floating device AND wore a thick coat or something to keep him warm...but Rose would not have given him her coat, that coat wasn't hers anyway, it was Cal's and Cal put the coat on her just before she got on that lifeboat, and if she gave Jack the coat to wear, then she would've died instead and we would not have this story to begin with, because Rose was the protagonist of this story, the story is told from her perspective. Or if Jack had never met Rose to begin with, but then we still would not have the story to begin with since the lovestory is about Jack & Rose.
So like I said before, either way, Jack was going to die regardless of whether Rose stayed on the lifeboat or not, he was doomed to die one way or another. So better to die with the girl he loved by his side, than die alone.

The only real guarantee for Jack to stay alive when the ship sank was to NOT be on the Titanic to begin with...he signed his own death warrant the moment he stepped on that doomed ship, and when the ship sank, he would've died one way or another anyway even without Rose in the picture.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

actually, excluding all the survivors who were in the lifeboats, only a few were saved from the freezing waters when 1 of the lifeboats returned in reality, I think only 4 people in total were saved, all were men and 1 of them died soon later, he succumbed to the freezing conditions. I have read nothing about how much clothes those 4 men were wearing when they were saved, but due to the freezing temperatures, I do not believe someone who was wearing so little clothes like Jack was, that he would've been able to survive it. I've read stories of how people have died from severe hypothermia being exposed to warmer temperatures than how freezing it should've been on the night when the Titanic sank. Which is partially why I believe Jack would not have survived either way, especially considering the little clothing he was wearing at the time.

as a person who read a lot about it i have to admit i was not happy with these fake character because there were so many interesting people on titanic. I understand the reason they killed him that way so she would feel guilt in her life and not be a brat anymore and stop living off of the money/life of others which was the point (and it would explain why there would be no records of him to not piss off people like me HAHA)

are you sure that was the point of the movie? Because I certainly don't see it that way...and don't forget that it wasn't even Rose's decision to live off money/other people, it was her mother's decision. You need to think about why Rose was behaving the way she was, would she even behave the way she was if her mother did not force her to marry some rich guy she doesn't even love? It was Ruth (not Rose) who craved money and wanted to continue living the wealthy life, hence why Ruth forced Rose to marry Cal. Rose hated it, she did not want that life, she would rather hang out with the poor 3rd class passengers, and she was a lot more compassionate towards the poor than all the other rich people were (except maybe Molly Brown). That's why Rose was so attracted to Jack who had so much freedom, I'm sure Rose would rather live her life as a poor person than to marry a wealthy man she doesn't love, that's why she was behaving the way she was and was so defiant in the movie. It was so obvious by the way Rose behaved in the movie that even though she was engaged to a wealthy man, Rose herself felt more like she belonged with the 3rd class passengers instead, she did not felt she belonged in that wealthy lifestyle, and that's evident by how much more she fit in with the 3rd class passengers in the movie. She was no more selfish than Ruth was, I find Ruth to be the most selfish one, she basically sold her own daughter to a wealthy man for money essentially. Ruth is responsible for creating the whole mess to begin with...though she is not completely responsible for Rose's actions in the movie, but Ruth IS still largely responsible for creating the whole problem to begin with.
Ruth was the one who was obsessed with money and wealth and living off other people, NOT Rose...Rose was a strong-willed girl who wanted independence and craved freedom and wanted to live the life that she herself wanted to live, she was very different to other women of that era, which is why she was so defiant against Ruth and Cal. Rose was basically a 21st century girl trapped in the suppressed era of the 1900s.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

you are right and I learned all this hypothermia stuff from the tv show deadlist catch and they got into details of what happens and how long you have to survive. they say if you panic or move around alot if forces that cold into your heart faster and you died quicker which is what i said if Jack was able to going into the water while holding his breathe. come out and swim and find a door to lay on. then swin around to find rose, fight someone then drag her back to this door that no one else has seen he could have survived just getting to the door and staying there.

but you have to remember that it took literally an hour or 2 after the ship sank for that 1 lifeboat to return to search for more survivors, that's still a lot of time had passed, even if you were not moving and lying on a piece of floating device waiting for rescue boats, you still likely would've froze to death by the freezing air temperature, and let's not forget that Jack had already been wearing so little clothing literally hours before the ship completely sank. So he would've been exposed to the freezing weather for literally many hours beforehand, that would've only increased his chances of contracting hypothermia, hence increased his chances of dying.

oh come on. she was spending his money like it was nothing. she didnt seem to want to carry the tons of bags up to her room and had not problem with paying someone else to do the work for her (Even though it was not his job) she got out of the car and walked past her own bags which were her problem. I dont see in any case that he said no to any of her spending

well that is not true at all. She could have left and taken care of herself and been poor. she wanted to kill herself because she didnt want to be poor. She wanted wealth but didnt want to work for it so instead of working and making weathly she tried to kill herself. are you saying that if you had a lot of wealth it is not a bad thing to not want your wife to smoke? I think its kinda a nobel thing for a man to want to bring along his mother in law on the most fancy/new ship there was. good luck finding that today

I think Rose spent alot of Cal's money more to spite him, not necessarily because she "loved" money...I think because she hated her life so much and hated the fact that she was engaged to Cal, so she spent his money in order to spite him. Before she met Jack, she felt like she was trapped and there was no way she could escape the marriage, so she probably felt that since she can't do anything to escape, she might as well make the most out of her miserable life and spend alot of Cal's money to do so. I know that sometimes people can do certain things out of spite for someone, and not necessarily because they "love" it. I once read this story about a woman who was forced to marry a wealthy man (just like Rose was) and she hated her husband, that she spent alot of his money, not because she "loved" money, but because she hated her rich husband so much that she wanted to hurt him by spending as much of his money as possible, and also because she could...she did it out of spite, not because she "loved" money. So maybe that's also why Rose spent so much of Cal's money in the movie...not necessarily because Rose "loved" money, but because she disliked Cal so she just wanted to spend his money out of spite, she certainly did not seem to like Cal in the movie.
And I know sometimes people can do certainly things simply because they 'could', not necessarily because they "love" doing it.

It was only after Rose met Jack that she realized that she still had a choice, that she could still find a way to escape her engagement and her caged life, to her, Jack was her escape. Rose really believed that she could run away with Jack and leave her old life behind, hence why she told Jack that she was going to leave the ship with him...but that was before the ship sank of course.
I think if Rose had never met Jack, then she probably would've given up already...I mean, she did try to kill herself and almost jumped off the ship early in the movie, if Jack had not saved her when he did, Rose would've died.
Seriously, think about it...if Rose really loved money and loved living in that wealthy lifestyle, why would she want to give it all up and kill herself? Because she did not want to work for it? I doubt it...it was so obvious she was miserable with her life because of this whole arranged marriage thing, she desperately wanted out of this engagement. But she saw no way of escaping, she felt she had no choice but to go through with it, hence she tried to kill herself. If Rose really "loved money and wealth but did not want to work for it", then that only would've given her all the MORE reason to stay with Cal and follow through with the marriage. I mean, if she were to really marry Cal, she would not have to worry about working for money. But that's NOT what Rose did, she did the opposite, instead she wanted to be with Jack; this poor penniless wandering artist, why would she want to be with this poor guy if she "loved" money & wealth? That does not make sense. The fact that Rose chose the poor penniless Jack over wealthy Cal, should be crystal clear that Rose does NOT care about money/wealth or social class.
It was Ruth who loved money, not Rose.

As for why Rose did not run away sooner, well, how old was Rose in the movie? 17 or 18? So she would've been betrothed to Cal when she was even younger, she was still a teenager, and Ruth was her only living relative that we knew of after the death of her father. So if Ruth was Rose's only living family left, she probably felt she had to stay with her mother and support her, despite she hated her mother's choices, hence why Rose eventually caved into her engagement with Cal, even though she hated it...she probably felt she had no choice and gave up trying to escape at that point. Until she met Jack and realized that she still had a chance to escape her miserable life and be with Jack.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

the first one is a video game and I've never played it, I dislike video games.

the second one is a completely different movie, so whatever happens in that movie is irrelevant to this particular film.

And I don't necessarily expect you to change your mind because I know it's hard to change other people's minds about something, I just wanted you to at least think about the situations from different perspectives.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] ScrystaLz 8 years ago

sorry but since it was labeled as a "video game" I just assumed it was exactly what is labeled, can you blame people for misunderstanding? So instead of blaming me or anyone else for misunderstanding, maybe you should blame whoever labeled it as a "video game"...if it was a documentary, then they should've marketed and labeled it as so. If you label and market something as a "video game", naturally people are going to assume that's what it is.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Jazzomaniac 8 years ago

Can't find any record of a ship 'Titan' colliding with a submarine. Do you mean the RMS Olympic colliding with HMS Hawke in 1911? There have been thousands of passenger ships before the Titanic. e.g. Mauretania, Lusitania, Celtic, Oceanic, Baltic, etc. You can find many of them here:

http://www.photoship.co.uk/Browse%20Ship%20Galleries/

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

It's laughable to think that Rose didn't like being rich. She just finished European tour and had the latest fashions. Se also paint many pieces of art, all at the expense of Cal. The scene in the beginning were old Rose arrived with a over the top amount f luggage,which was a no towards he rich life.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] lutufyan 8 years ago

Whoa!!! Rose leaving the lifeboat was JUST an act of love (crazy love as developped during the past few days), was a piece of romance built into the script. There was no way Rose or Jack would know what would happen thereafter. However, what I do hate about Rose is her attitude to Cal, especially when she posed naked to Jack wearing Cal's diamond. What kind of a bitch does that? If you decide to follow your heart, then break up with Cal, return him all your fancy clothing and jewellry and move down to third class with you true love. Otherwise, you are a big hipocrite.

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[–] Jazzomaniac 8 years ago

Rose was a young debutante who's role in life was to marry a rich suitor and bless him with many children. It would not matter if he was 18 or 80, or a saint or a drunken brute. She was born, bred and educated to understand her role in life. Her mother would have undergone the same traditional role of life, as did all high society women. Rose would not select her husband, nor did her mother Ruth. Not even Cal. It was entirely up to Cal's parents to select a suitable wife for their son. Ruth was fortunate that they selected Rose. They would meet at the annual debutantes ball (an official event for young single women to make their introductions to society) and after exchanging invitations and attending dinners at their stately homes, the future husband and wife would finally meet in person. Rose and Ruth would have dinner at Cal's residence (his parents residence) and discuss their future with both Cal and Rose staring at each other across the table with barely a nod to each other. Cal understood his duties and I'm sure he was surprised Rose did not. It is possible that Cal was just as stubborn as young Rose at first but his father soon made his responsibilities clear to him. Ruth would do the same with Rose.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

I do not believe it was that strict with neither party having any say. I have read about many real life high profile courtships of the time, and while they were not dating it wasnt like they would meet each other for the first time when they were told to marry. Also, there were marriage proposals were the female could very well reject the him. It wasnt quite so cold and business contract seeming. Also, I had the impression the Cal actually liked Rose up until the voyage back to the states.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Jazzomaniac 8 years ago

You can guess I'm reading a lot of P.G Wodehouse right now. Aunt Agatha keeps pressuring her nephew Bertie Wooster into marriages without his consent and they always end in disaster right after the introduction. lol.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] jajceboy 8 years ago

I think Cal believed he loved Rose, without knowing what it means. It wasn't enough just showering her with expensive gifts and constantly thinking he knew better than her.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

That may indeed be true, but into way justifies the way Rose treated him.

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[–] infracaninophile 8 years ago

I think Cal believed he loved Rose

Cameron also believed Cal loved Rose, he says in the script (close to exact line here) "we see that in the only way he knows, Cal truly loves her." Because Cal is so self-involved, he probably cannot love someone as deeply as a less narcissistic person would do, but that doesn't mean he can't (or doesn't) love at all.

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[–] Wilsonandrewc (534) 4 years ago

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[–] Wilsonandrewc (534) 2 years ago

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[–] Wilsonandrewc (534) 2 years ago

Well, if Writer and Director of Titanic, James Cameron believed Cal loved Rose, then he was wrong and so is everyone else who believes it. Because if your partner, fiance and/or spouse is putting their hands on you in an aggressive way and/or putting you down, they don't love you.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] 8 years ago

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