not a fan of hyphenated nationalities
Am i the only one who dislikes hyphenated racial terms like African-American? Is it wrong for me to somehow prefer using Indian as opposed to Native-American?
shareSome people of native heritage prefer to call themselves Indians and some prefer Native American, some prefer Indigenous, some prefer to be called Americans. So, I'm not sure it really matters so much as just being a question of political correctness. Then it depends on if you care about being politically correct or not.
Personally, I'm OK with Indian. In addition to that, I'm OK with being considered of mixed Black blood, too (I have both bloodlines, and I prefer Black (even though I am really more like a nice caramel color) over African American, actually. To me, African American implies being born in Africa and then migrating here afterwards; just as with any of the other hyphenated racial terms. Me and my friends all prefer ndn. The most politically correct I get is saying Native instead.
Besides, it's Columbus who ended up in the wrong hemisphere of the world and started calling the People by the wrong nationality. Yet another thing to thank Columbus for <sarcasm drips>.
[deleted]
Actually, Indiegurl, we are called "indians" because of the Spanish calling us "en dios" (with god). But it's true, that political correctness can be annoying. I once had a rant against my history teacher and students referring to us as Native-Americans, because technically, everyone born in America is a native American. Get what I'm saying?? But, it depends your preference. I prefer to be called American Indian.
"'Hey," my father said as we passed by an old indian man. "That was Jimmy Shi t Pants.'"
You are certainly right about everyone born here technically being a "Native American". I have heard about the difference in origin of Indian, but there was so much contradictory info that I wasn't sure what to believe. I just figured that our boy Columbus (sarcasm) was looking for India, so the first land mass that he saw with some brown skinned people he assumed were Indians. And as far as the Spanish influence, C.C. was Italian who are part of the Latin derivative languages (French, Spanish, Italian, some English, and probably something else I don't know about).
The thing that always occured to me was that the Europeans considered the Natives "savages", therefore, certainly not with their God. In fact, they almost considered them a little less than human. So the 'in God' reference isn't clear for me. Since history is written by the victors, it seems a little obscure what it really meant.
Yeah, that's a good point. They did think of us less than themselves. I guess your view makes sense. I've just heard other Natives talking about the whole Columbus deal, and there was no "India" in the 1400's-1500's.
Good sarcasm.
"'Hey," my father said as we passed by an old indian man. "That was Jimmy Shi t Pants.'"
" Alexander the Great referred to the Indus (Indos), and to the region's inhabitants as Indikoi, as early as the third century B.C. The name passed from Greek into Latin and thence into other European languages, the earliest citation in English being in 893 A.D. by King Alfred the Great. At the time of Columbus's voyage, "India" or "the Indias/Indies" was often used to refer to all of south and east Asia. Columbus carried with him a passport from Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain, written in Latin and dispatching him "toward the regions of India" (ab partes Indie) on their behalf. Martin Beheim's globe of 1492, which predated the voyage, clearly labels the region as "Indie." "Hindustan," also derived from the Indus River, is a much later term, not appearing in English until 1665. In any case, in Spanish that name is not Hindustan but Indostan."
shareI teach on an Indian reservation. I don't think my high school kids care if they're called Indian or Native or just Kids.
Columbus was using some standard geographical knowledge from the time. As I remember the story, he (and everyone who had anything more than a smattering of schooling) knew the world was round, but he didn't know that, although the world had been graphed out by (?), the figures were wrong. He expected to hit Asia quickly, but the world's a lot bigger than was thought.
I'm getting used to saying "Native." Yet, wit the racism of the reservation system and the cultural expectations around here that demand mediocrity and excuses and the drinking and dope smoking and general feeling that failure and dependency are good things and it's all the white man's fault (no matter if this white guy's ancestors came from Ireland and Germany six generations ago), then I don't want to say Native anymore, I want to use "lost."
"Tell me, Cliff, what color is the sky in your world?"--Dr. Frazier Crane
then I don't want to say Native anymore, I want to use "lost."
What reservation do you teach on?
"'Hey," my father said as we passed by an old indian man. "That was Jimmy Shi t Pants.'" share
Thanks for the reply, but I never reveal my secret identity.
Seriously, I hope you don't take this as rudeness; I just don't ever reveal much about myself.
I-71
"Tell me, Cliff, what color is the sky in your world?"--Dr. Frazier Crane
Inspectors71,
I applaud your efforts as a teacher on the rez. It can't be easy. But your posts in this thread and in another thread on this board indicate that you are clearly very, very frustrated. I hope that doesn't come through in the manner in which you teach the kids at your school....
More astonished than frustrated. I don't know if I want to "push sand uphill" for a long time, but I do see great promise and talent in the student body. I never act frustrated in front of the kids, but I have to rethink--daily--what is "passing" for them, what will get them into the world outside the reservation on their own two feet.
Thanks for the reply!
I-71
"Tell me, Cliff, what color is the sky in your world?"--Dr. Frazier Crane
Thanks. It's two years later, and I'm not there anymore. There was a fountain of talent that was going to waste on the reservation, some of the smartest kids I've ever seen. But about the fifth time I sent a kid who was obviously stoned down to the office--and he was sent back because "he's not disrupting the class," and the third time a colleague of mine was assaulted--and the reservation police were not called, I knew what was what.
I learned a great deal, but I couldn't do it anymore.
Take care!
I71
"You eat guts."--Nick Devlin
I personally think that the issues you see are much more than they appear or you see. Even if they weren't, many schools in the U.S. have disinterested apathetic students period-many that do drugs. If this is the case at some rez schools, it is no surprise since academics is not held in high enough esteem period.
share@inspectors71 I think your observation is bleak and bias... and I feel you are closeted bigot. There are those same problems everywhere and the blame gets pointed in all directions.. Not just the White man's... You should be ashamed of yourself and I hope you lose your job over those comments. *beep*
The aim of a joke is not to degrade the human being but to remind him that he is already degraded
Wow... Why are you jumping all over I-71's case? Closet bigot? ashamed of themselves? What conversation are you reading? You totally lost me there... Sounds like you didn't understand any of I-71's posts whatsoever.
I don't know, after reading the posts, i got the opposite view of I-71...
and the only bigot in this thread would be you.
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I think that the first time I heard this theory was from George Carlin, who doesn't always have his facts straight, if it fits in with his current comic tirade. I like George Carlin, but if this is the origin of the "en dios" hypothesis, then he should clear up that its his idea.
More on this http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgenteindios.html
"we are called "indians" because of the Spanish calling us "en dios" (with god)".
Where did this "en dios" theory spring from? Columbus was looking for the "Indies", that is the land around India. He sure didn't think America was there. To the end of his life, it never struck him that he had reached a land unknown to Europeans (save those Vikings who came earlier). So the Hindus called it Hindustan. It doesn't stop the Europeans from currupting "Hindustan" into "India".
I was taught that Spanish friars were amazed by the trust of the inhabitants, and thus called them Los Ninos en Dios, or Children of God. This was shortened to "en Dios". I was also taught that Columbus was a brilliant navigator and knew he was not in India.
"Life is more than the sum of it's parts, kiddo"
that doesn't make sense in Spanish. "en Dios" would be "on God", or Children on God. "de Dios" is how it would have been said. So instead of Indian it might have been Dedian or Didian... no, its just all wrong.
I still think its a result of the India/Indies thing. Even if Columbus knew he wasn't in India, it might not have mattered. "Hey look brown people, lets call them all the same." But it doesn't matter, own it if you want and ignore it if its offensive. I might have known a few natives who minded the word but most don't lose a moment's sleep over the issue.
"......Columbus's original letter, through which word of the new lands and their inhabitants was disseminated throughout Europe (see links below). In this letter Columbus repeatedly refers to India and Indians, and says nothing whatever about "a people in God."
shareAccording to Columbus' own letter, he referred to them as "Indios".
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1966/does-indian-derive-from-columbuss-description-of-native-americans-as-una-gente-in-dios
I prefer First Americans, as even the people of the people who were here when the Vikings first came were not indigenous to the Americas.
this is sort of on the topic, but i live in CA, and there is a movement out here by latinos to reject that name, and insist solely on their nationality. ie, mexican-merican, venezuelan american, etc. thats fine, if thats the way you want to go, but i have tp admit i cant necessarily tell the differencve between latino nationalities just by looking at them...i mean, if you piut me in a line with a bunch of caucasians, could you tell what country i was from?
shareYou could also thank Columbus for "discovering" this country, leading others here, which led to our nation being founded, a lot of mistakes along the way, but since the founding of this country technology has advanced quicker in the last 200 years than it had the previous five, six, seven hundred years. You can look at Columbus being misguided, lost, and trying to cover his ass by calling the natives Indians...or you can believe that this country is a chosen one, and that he was led by our Heavenly Father to usher in many great and wonderful things. Yes, the new settlers could've reacted to the Indians better, but honestly the Indians could've reacted to them better. A lot of Indians like to paint this picture that everything was shiny and happy and blissful here before the horrible white man showed up, as though tribes weren't warring with each other, mutilating each other, kidnapping each other's women and raping them. It's kinda hard to take the high ground when there's evidence to prove you're no better.
Born and raised on the Flathead Indian Reservation, St. Ignatius, MT. A descendant from Natives and Pioneers alike.
It wasn't a dream? Like the one I had where me and Lee Majors were tracking Bigfoot?