MovieChat Forums > Ta'm e guilass (1997) Discussion > I am still confused with the ending?

I am still confused with the ending?


So Badii is there in the world or gone is upto us to deicde..right?
and then wat abt the scenes where we see the crew and every1..Is it the director`s way of saying that ,Wake up! Cinema is over.Baddi is just a character and you(we) are the viewers..

really confused...

there is a thesis on the ending..itneresting but everything has become so complicated for me..

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/17/cherry.html

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I believe the death is open to interpretation. However, I lean very strongly towards believing that he is dead. This is because the film at that critical time goes black and there is just silence. this seems fairly symbolic of death.

also, when interviewed, kiarostami gave his own take on why he put that end-scene with the crew in there. kiarostami is at pains to not try to provoke emotional reactions one way or another in his audience, rather he wants to leave things up to the audience to interpret without overly influencing them, under the belief that a film arises only out of the interaction between 'film' and moviegoer. thus the ending is saying something like, "don't worry, no need to react emotionally too much, it was just a film after all". I think kiarostami, being kind of an intellectual himself, makes films that are to be viewed calmly and analyzed soberly. he under-interprets and under-determines his films. in this context a strong emotional moment can be disastrous, because it makes the whole movie subservient to that one point, thus distorting the kind of calm sober mood he is creating.

"I'm worth a million in prizes"

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Thank You..

I love cinema because of movies like these... Salute to the crew and everyone behind Tam e Guilas

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I don't think he died. But that's me. I think that ending depends on the person watching.

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i dont know if youve ever taken a bunch of sleeping pills before, but it makes you hallucinate/have flashbacks. this was a flashback or a hallucination of when he was in the military, which he said was the best time in his life.

the highlight of his life looked pretty boring to me. im pretty sure he died.

it doesnt take many sleeping pills to kill someone either, and iran doesnt mess around with nyquil or some crap, it was probably like.. half opium lol.

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Hmmm. I think he over-played his hand, in that case. Anyone going into a movie theater or popping in a DVD is pretty much aware that what they're watching is a movie. I don't think I've ever had an experience where the contrary is true. The few shots seemed superfluous and unnecessary.

I understand his stance on the suspension of disbelief, but pointing it out neither promotes nor negates his opinion, it merely foregrounds it where it wasn't necessary.

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Whether Badii died or lived is irrelevent. The ending takes the movie back to the viewer. I believe its Kiarostami's way of saying - yes its a movie but your thoughts and feelings were real although the characters were not.

You've heard various viewpoints and its up to you to decide for yourself your own approach to life. By this it does not only mean whether you would commit suicide or not, but the entire gamut of thoughts on life that probably came to your mind as you watched the movie.

======================================

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"If you can't afford LSD, try color TV"

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for an almost identical ending check out Jodorowsky's "The Holy Mountain", although in any other aspect it's vastly different from "Taste of Cherry".

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Yeah, after I saw the ending, I immediately thought of The Holy Mountain. I still am undecided whether Taste of Cherry's end was a rip off, homage, or coincidence.

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Try: a huge improvement.

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Thats a good one! Tase of Cherry is a superb work of cinema, but so is Holy Mountain. Get real.

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This is a total guess but I believe the "ending" might have been added to allow the Iranian censors to approve the film. For a religious fanatic in the Iranian film section of the government, the ambiguity of the real ending might be too much an anti-Koran perception.

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But in the interview on the disc he says he was not affected by censoring, that it was mostly about religious things involving women which his films didn't deal with.



~ Observe, and act with clarity. ~

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I was not thrilled that we didnt know for sure if he lived. I thought the ending could have been a dream he was having from the sleeping pills... and this expalins why he chose THAT tree. I really have mixed feelings about the movie because of the ending.

Happy 2007!!

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I think the ending of this movie is totally amazing! I was really hypnotized by the movie and really wanted to know if he died or not and then the ending... I thought it was great. A wake up call... hello.. it's just a movie, it doesn't matter if he dies or not, because he doesn't even excist!

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If you see "Slipstream" by Anthony Hopkins, I think you might apply the conjecture that life is just a movie, that it is a dream with actors acting out a script, and Mr. Badii's script had ended.

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The look of the film at the end lends credibility to the idea that that part may have been a dream, a remembrance. Note how the film, sharp and good looking up to that point, changes, and at the end looks like a movie shot with one of those old 8mm home movie cameras, with washed out colors and low resolution.

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No no, you actually see the lead actor and Kiarostami while they're filming a scene in the film with the soldiers marching. First seconds of the grainy video shots I thought that it might have been a remembrance but the filming confirms it's a method of guiding thoughts to all the views that were presented and that arose from those in the viewer. As has been stated, It's a way of Kiarostami to underline the significance of the themes, not the outcome of the fictional story.

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Exactly my take as well. Which was surprising and so much better than expected. I can't think of any better ending. My view of art is generally not just a means of entertainment, but rather an expression of oneself or a certain belief. I don't believe Kiarostami made this to entertain and distract people from reality for an hour and a half, I think he made it to present philosophies and the opportunity for wisdom and perspective for reality. He used the avenue of cinema for a concrete and nonexpendable purpose. This garners my respect more than any other usage.

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He should have ended this movie with Mr Badii watching the sunset at the museum. then the audience could really choose to interpret what happened for themselves. Given the fact that he showed the audience Mr Badii in his self-dug grave and falling asleep/passing out, the audience can only speculate as to whether Mr Badii's pills worked or if he took them at all...

If he ended the film at the museum one could speculate...

-he never went
-he went and it worked
-the man showed up to buy him
-the man didn't show to buy him
-or even he went and the afghani student contacted the authorities and they intervened
-all other imaginable senarios..


I think that the ending is acceptable but it doesn't strenghen the quality of the final product. It may work for some people but not for me.

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I agree with peacecorpsdrew. I understand what others on this thread are saying about the director's intentions, but for me the final scene with the crew doing the sound test pretty much wasted the film for me. It was an unnecessary addition that undermines the story - unless it can be perceived as a flashback (which I disagree with). For a director to strip away the fictional element, thereby stating 'it's only a movie, don't worry about whether or not he's dead because he's not real'... I don't find anything intellectual about that. If the director wanted us to interpret the ending he would have ended the film during the scene where Mr. Badii is on the bench.

The ending aside, I think the film as a whole is seriously lacking. If we new more about Mr. Badii, then maybe the film would be stronger. As it is, I don't think it has very much to say.

"That is the whitest white part of the eye I have ever seen; do you floss?"

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I agree totally.

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[deleted]

I think it was a brilliant movie, but that ending just sucked. For me, it just threw out all the previous thoughts my mind was perusing, and just made me laugh. It would have been better to just toss that out completely!

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I agree with you 100% about that tacked-on ending, however I thought the rest of the film was a masterpiece.

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Read up on Brecht and the alienation effect. It is completely understandable that you, or anyone, would find Kiarostami's ending frustrating. it is, indeed, challenging, but therein lies its value. Does the self-referential conclusion undermine the narrative? Absolutely. But if Kiarostami chose to do that, it is for a reason. Analyze that reason, analyze your own reaction to the ending, and analyze the reasons for that reaction, and you should be able to take something away from the film much more profound than anything the narrative would have provided you if it had have remained in the representational mode that you preferred. Presentational cinema has always received polarized responses, from viewers and critics alike (although critics tend to favor it more than viewers, because critics by nature are more prone to analysis, and analysis is the cornerstone of appreciating this kind of metatextual self-reference). Yes, these kinds of meta-cinematic devices are always challenging, and often frustrating. Godard proved that as early, as often, and as well as anyone. They are challenging because they deny the viewer -- well, they deny the viewer pretty much everything that he wants by instinct. They deny us a definitive, unambiguous finality with regards to the narrative. They deny us the ability to believe what we have just seen was real -- they force us to confront the unreality of the viewing experience -- and as a result, they deny us the emotional response that we might otherwise be able to have, had we been allowed to continue to pretend we were witnessing reality. For all these reasons, this kind of meta-reference is distasteful to many, many viewers, especially viewers who are accustomed to more traditional, representational cinema. Those who are familiar with Jodorowsky's "The Holy Mountain", or pretty much Godard's entire oeuvre, or Brecht's theater, or Fellini's "8 1/2" or "Intervista", or Altman's "The Player", or, of course, Kiarostami's "Close-Up", are far more likely to respond favorably to it. Because, at first, it is definitely hard to digest. Brecht suggested that this method of obliterating the fourth wall and forcing the audience to recognize the fact that what they are watching is not real -- what he called the alienation, or distancing, effect -- was crucial in terms of forcing the viewer into a "critical, analytical frame of mind". It forces the viewer to recognize his or her own place in the work, instead of allowing us the more traditional, often preferable role of the voyeur -- to see without being seen. That is, of course, a much easier perspective from which to view anything. Whereas to acknowledge the viewer is to make him or her self-aware -- to alienate him or her from the basic, dramatic, fictive qualities of the work, and to distance him or her from the emotional responses that those qualities generally create. So, it very much depends on what you are looking for. Most viewers are looking for an emotionally evocative viewing experience based in a tight, compact, linear narrative. For those viewers, the ending of "Taste of Cherry" will be undoubtedly frustrating. But I can't agree that it wastes the entire film. It alters our perception of it, from the ground up, without a doubt. But there is far too much value in the ideas that Kiarostami's ending conveys to suggest that it ruins the film. It may have ruined the specific experience of viewing the film that you expected and were looking for -- that's understandable -- and that's exactly why we have to ask ourselves, "Why did Kiarostami choose to do this, and what was he trying to convey in doing so?" A lot of solid ideas have been expressed in this thread toward that end, and I personally don't think there's any one, definitive answer to that kind of question. But I have always found that meta-reference does a great deal to enhance a film's overall profundity, and I don't think "Taste of Cherry" was any exception. It definitely forces the viewer into analysis if he or she wishes to appreciate the film -- it makes the film more intellectual and cerebral by nature -- and that's something many viewers don't like. They don't want to have to analyze. But if you're willing to do so, there is much reward here. Furthermore, if you're bothered by the meta-cinematic ending that much, it's easy enough to simply pretend it doesn't exist. After all, it doesn't show us anything we don't already know: that this is a film, and there are crew members behind every shot. The only relevant question is, "Why has Kiarostami chosen to explicitly state this reality of the film?" And the answer is for each of us to find on our own.

I, personally, like the idea of death as a meta-cinematic phenomenon in itself. Couldn't life be perceived as one, massive film, which we are all part of? To die is to leave the diagetic world of the film, to exist beyond its parameters. Our protagonist in "Taste of Cherry" dies, and he wakes up to a world in which he is simply an actor playing a part. To be alive is to be inside of a certain world, a certain reality. And to die is to leave that world, to exist outside the boundaries of that reality. And so I see our protagonist's implicit death at the end of the film as a kind of meta-filmic transcendence. He dies, and departs the world of the film, permanently (as one of the crew members says, "The shoot is over."). And so Kiarostami reveals cinema as a kind of microcosmic representation of life itself, and reveals death to be nothing more than the breaking of that notorious fourth wall.

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Bravo, sir.

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Brilliant post! Eye-opening to say the least.

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He commits suicide, but Kiarostami claims the film is not about suicide, and he claims the film was never censored because the Iranian government was persuaded into believing the film was about life choices, not suicide:

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/00/9/kiarostami.html

When Taste of Cherry was due at Cannes, there was speculation that Iranian authorities might stop it because it dealt with suicide. But afterward some reports said its subject matter had not been a problem. Did that film run into difficulties with the censors because of its subject?

There was controversy about the movie, but after I talked with the authorities, they accepted the fact that this is not a movie about suicide-it's about the choice we have in life, to end it whenever we want. We have a door we can open at any time, but we choose to stay, and the fact that we have this choice is, I think, God's kindness: God is kind because he has given us this choice. They were satisfied with that explanation. A sentence from [Romanian-French philosopher E.M. Cioran] helped me a lot: "Without the possibility of suicide, I would have killed myself long ago." The movie is about the possibility of living, and how we have the choice to live. Life isn't forced on us. That's the main theme of the movie.

Beyond this particular film, are you aware of the censorship situation in Iran influencing or shaping your work?

It's a difficult question. Over the years of working in Iran I have been sensitive to this, and it has influenced my work to a certain extent. However, my films have escaped the sharp censorship scissors, probably because the censors did not quite understand what they should censor in them! A movie is good, I think, when the censor does not understand what should be censored. If a film is made so a censor cuts some parts of it, then those parts should have been cut, because he understood them!
Since the film is literally about suicide (he cannot deny this at all ) and metaphorically about spiritual re-awakening and free will, I personally believe he decided at the last second to cut the finale from the film, out of fear of censorship. Since he despised the thought that he was allowing himself and his film to be compromised, he decided to tack on the behind-the-scenes set footage, to add a few more minutes to the film and make it appear he intended to end the film that way.

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What the Director said in that interview is so clever because it doesn't actually inform the pivotal question: is our protagonist dead at the end of the movie or not? My personal take on it, which was good fun if not actually enlightening in any particular way, was that the protagonist in our movie was a movie actor, who'd previously been cast as a character in another, fictitious Kiarostami movie, and that he was flashing back to the day he picked the site for his suicide, which happened to be during principal photography of that "other" movie. They were done with their shot, standing around, and he thinks, "Wow, what a perfectly serene little spot," and it sticks with him against the day that he loses all hope and decides to end it all.

Obviously that's all rubbish, but it also enables the more conventional "did he or didn't he" debate to dovetail into an otherwise incongruous final scene.

Just for fun -- as all of it is, of course.

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saw it again today after a long time and this time ,many questions which were lingering on my mind have found genuine answers..classic cinema..

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My own interpretation was always a homage to life. That life is wonderful after all, and it's the small things in life. That mr. Badii don't kill himself, but goes out of the grave to enjoy whatevers comming.

**********
They blew up Congress!!! HAHAHA!

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It's not rubbish at all because Kiarotstami's response is logically flawed and the end of the film is ambiguous (most of his films end ambiguously). That allows us to interpret the end anyway we want.

And I have a new interpretation after watching this lovely film again today - the museum taxidermist (symbolism - stuffing the dead in order to allow them to continue to "live" as an adornment/statue for all to see and appreciate, instead of burying the dead in the ground to disintegrate and be forgotten) strongly resembled Saddam Hussein. I felt that way before, but never thought about what him looking like Saddam could mean.

Our Hussein the Genocidal Invader was ironically telling Mr. Badii to not lay down and die.

Perhaps Kiarotsami was telling Iranians to not lay down and die, to not let their country be razed and ruined by any type of tyranny - political tyranny, economic tyranny (poverty), industrial/environmental tyranny (machinery destroying landscape and plundering natural resources), religious tyranny (strict rules subverting individual thought and action), etc.

Do not lay down and die, do not let the negative power of the world manipulate you into thinking you are better off dead.

And to validate this, Abbas demonstrated with the ending that life is just an acting game, so play and enjoy. Life's just a movie, scenes change, feelings change, suicidal thoughts are a temporary state of mind that can be changed by acting differently,take a break and rest your mind, then jump back into life and fight on.

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as far as i know this film was made in Iran and not in Iraque which is a big(!) difference.
even their religion is different, as is their political system.

the guy you think which looks like saddam hussein just looks like incredible many turkish and iranian people.
its quite "modern".... "hip" to look that way in those countries in the "far east".

saddam hussein is not a unique person in the way he looks.
he is not a role model
he looks just like a lot of people look like in that area

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I don't dare to say that I understood the ending, but my feeling is that we are confronted here with some kind of russian dolls or boxes-within-boxes scenario.
First: I think that questions about "the meaning of X" make proper sense when asked from outside "X". Maybe God gives meaning to life (if you are religious) but, what about the meaning of God's life?
So at the end of the movie we see that the purpose of Baddi's life was to be part of a movie. The director is, then, a kind of God that created Baddi's problems, gave him a Range Rover and a script. According to that script, Baddi's goal (suicide) is a desire to stop playing his role and to take a rest, but that fulfills his role in the movie, so even his suicide has meaning in the order of things set up by the director.
Of course, the people he finds see no meaning at all in the suicide. Those other people in Baddi's world seem to be happy with their scripts and with keeping their roles in the movie/life (well, the Museum guy seems to be aware that other boxes exist, IMO. His tale of the broken finger is soooo wonderful...)
At the end, we see that there is a box that contains Baddi's world (this is also emphasized by the radical change in photography, something that few people have commented here). That box, where the director is, provides the meaning to Baddi's existence even when he is not aware of that (possibly) and even when his goal is to commit suicide. At this point we learn that there are other boxes (realities) upon us, that we can't reach or understand. Actually, as spectator, I belong to a box that contains the director's box (which already contained Baddi's box). The implications of all this are overwhelming.
I think that the ending of this movie is glorious, pure poetry/philosophy/religion/whatever.

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