Horribly written
The dialog seems to be overcooked, as if the director went back to the script, felt it was unclear, and fixed it be repeating the same line over and over again.
shareThe dialog seems to be overcooked, as if the director went back to the script, felt it was unclear, and fixed it be repeating the same line over and over again.
shareI could not agree with you more fully, agree with you more fully, agree with you more fully, I could not.
shareI think you might not be familiar with Mamet's writing style. All of his characters tend to speak the same lines over repeatedly and they all sound exactly the same (whether this is an intentional thing on the director's behalf commenting on the general sameness of people or laziness is merely speculative).Mamet has always been a student of the demimonde, as most if not all of his stories concern criminals in one form or another (House of Games, Glengarry Glen Ross,The Untouchables).
shareExactly right, bafflewit. These viewers just don't understand Mamet's writing style, nor appreciate its origins in his plays. They are just unwitting victims of pseudo-realist conventions in what passes for conversation in most movies made for American audiences in the past two decades. Mamet is not interested in this kind of realism, nor in making movies or plays based on it (thank God).
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Do you think the dialog in Shakespeare was actually the way people spoke? If so, then everyone who spoke would also be a great writer. I don't want David Mamet to write dialog that sounds like what I would hear on the street. His characters never talk over each other. They speak clearly and precisely. That's not the way things are in real life, but it isn't meant to be.
shareI agree...having studied Mamet in a playwriting class, even though his style isn't even close to my own, I totally appreciate what he does in terms of writing snappy dialogue. That was my favorite part of this movie. The actual plotting was kind of weak, but the dialogue sucked me right in.
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Mamet, unlike most writers, actually thinks about what he is writing. He puts a great deal of effort into how each word and line sounds. His language resonates where other writers' just spews out. Mamet's use of language when compared to most other writers' is like fine, hand-made craftsmanship compared to factory output. And, as with fine craftsmanship, it usually gets appreciated by connoisseurs, aficionados, and those with the means and ability to understand it.
Let's get dangerous!
that would be false. He may put great effort into his writing, but his lines are still poorly written, regardless of whether he ponders the meaning prior. The character's way of speaking is too contrived. Its unfair to say that its his genius that causes such line as it is also unfair to say that you will even remotely understand this, considering you are clearly quite condescending in the way you speak/write.
And Mamet is no shakespeare. He is merely a bad writer who apparently has no experience with how people actually speak.
"Hope is a waking dream."
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9804/05/review.spanish.prisoner/
i believe that sums up perfectly everything that ive tried to say.
"Hope is a waking dream."
The character's way of speaking is too contrived.
He is merely a bad writer who apparently has no experience with how people actually speak.
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Not liking it is fine. However, the answer you gave above, about people not talking like that, has nothing to do with liking or disliking--your answer had everything to do with not understanding.
Both spellings of Salvidor/Salvador are correct; I was unaware that his was with an 'a'. Your correction has been much appreciated. However, my point, which you can not refute, still stands.
Let's get dangerous!
The worst part was at the end: "You're getting fingerprints all over the book!" and then our main character figures out, "Aha! Steve Martin's fingerprints are on the book!" - LOL. What mother would yell at her toddler that he is getting FINGERPRINTS ON A BOOK!? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!? *head explodes*
shareOh goodie. Presumably that means we won't be hearing from you again.
shareSo I take it that you thought that was 'clever' writing?
shareI've checked and re-checked, and I can't find the bit where I said it was 'clever'. Still, I'm not used to dealing the head-exploded dead, and it could be that you are privy to more information than me.
shareDude, my head exploded 4 days ago. More than enough time for me to heal.
shareI'm impressed. :)
shareWell my two cents on this months dead thread is that I completely respect Mamet, but I don't always enjoy him. Writing dialog is so very difficult, it's an art that befuddles me at every turn. I only wish that I had a "voice" that was as distinctive. Somehow his stuff seems so much more of a play than a movie, which only makes sense given his experience.
Mamet is one of the writers whose dialog you can almost pick out without knowing it was him that wrote it. Unfortunately you can hardly ever test this theory because it's so easy to find out before hand. For example I didn't know he wrote "The edge" but noticed the similarities to his work, later realizing it was actually he after all
I agree with the above posters who point out the oddities of some of his choices. the "fingerprints on the book" was a perfectly ridiculous example, as mentioned, who would really say that? But I still admire the art of it. Another problem is that I think sometimes he doesn't get people who are trusted enough to tell him when such things don't work. But if you experience someone who REALLY doesn't write dialog, you get lines like "We need to stay ahead of the wind". MNS should have Mamet help write dialog. that would be ...interesting
Yes, I completely agree. I remember seeing House of Games when it first came out - it was the first Mamet film I'd seen - and wondering WTF was going on. But after seeing it another couple of times, and seeing it through his prism, it made wonderful sense.
Writing dialogue is very difficult, and he seems to exemplify one extreme. On the other, perhaps, you have Elmore Leonard who writes beautiful dialogue which rarely seems to work on the screen.
It must be a very frustrating experience from both angles.
I like Mamet.
A joke:
A woman leaving a theatre is accosted by a beggar. She pompously tells him, " 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be.'--William Shakespeare."
The beggar replies: "Yeah? F* you.'--David Mamet."
KIAI ... please.
Another version:
British fuddy dud bumps into a disgusting, filthy bum. " "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" Shakespeare" " To which bum replies " "F__k Y__" Tennessee Williams" "
Mamet couldn't write believable dialogue if his life depended on it. He's like the stage version of Aaron Sorkin.
Working in the movie business since -92