MovieChat Forums > Seven Years in Tibet (1997) Discussion > Worms wellbeing versus fur caps and clo...

Worms wellbeing versus fur caps and clothing.

posted 16 years ago by riverlynx
14 replies | jump to latest

I enjoyed the movie, but I have a number of questions; for example:

The moviemakers makes a big show on how the compassionate Tibetans …”would never, never, harm anything that lives”. I am referring to the earthworms in the ditches being dug for the foundation for the Cinema. The workers tremble at the thought of harming the worms; and go to very great lengths to save the ones that are dug up, yet many of them are wearing fur, hats and on their clothing. How is this reconciled?

Don’t get me wrong I have very much respect for Buddhists; but what do they do, wait for the animal to die before taking the fur? If so I think that is great; I hate the idea of killing animals for their fur.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Prof_Lostiswitz 15 years ago

They employed an underclass to do the dirty work; nowadays Chinese Muslims do it (butchering, restaurants etc.).

Old Japan had a similar system, which is how the buraku-min underclass originated.

[–] rohit4165 15 years ago

Don't forget, in that era, their was no commercialization of products. So they probably obtained their fur clothing from dead animals. It must have been possible to do so for a very small population.

[–] rosarypliers 15 years ago

The Dalai Lama admits that he eats meat. He says he is against the killing of animals but if the animals are dead already the does not reject the meat. If these very observant Buddhists didn't kill animals themselves, they might have bought the clothes…we saw several markets, so if you can buy iceskates, you probably can buy furtrimmed clothing as well.

[–] nuwansube 14 years ago

"The Dalai Lama admits that he eats meat. He says he is against the killing of animals but if the animals are dead already the does not reject the meat."

That's the siliest thing I ever heard. Unless Dalai Lama eats meat of animals that are dead from natural causes, he is hurting the animals. The animal is killed because people eat his meat. So ultimately, the person who eat the animal is as guilty as the person who kill it.

"I'm sorry, I don't speak Monkey..."

[–] rosarypliers 14 years ago

The Dalai Lama also claims that his doctors told him he should eat meat. Paul McCartney criticized him for that both personally (he wrote him a letter) and publicly. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a vegetarian either. I'm not an expert on such things. But I think many people were shocked when they learned that the Dalai Lama ate veal on a party, together with other celebrities. I wasn't shocked. To the best of my knowledge, being a vegetarian is not a requirement of being a Buddhist. And I think there is a difference between eating something at a party that would end up in the trash otherwise, and raising calves to slaughter them and eat their meat.
I'm not a big fan of the Dalai Lama's. I think the public is making to much fuss about him, and some of his "wise counsels" are a bit dull. However, concerning the meat, at least he's honest. While the Beatles were dwelling in the Maharishi's ashram, meat was forbidden. However, the Maharishi ate meat secretly, that's what some disappointed celebrities claim. If it was true, the Maharishi was a hypocrite, who, in John Lennon's words "made a fool of everyone" ("Sexy Sadie"). The Dalai Lama is much more honest.

[–] Zuider_Zee 10 years ago

McCartney certainly has turned into an old woman!

[–] electriclime 14 years ago

I found this link you might find it usefull.

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/meat.html

:)

[–] rosarypliers 14 years ago

This is useful and quite interesting. I've also read in the meantime at least one reliable source stating that because of the rough climate, Tibetan monks have always been omnivorous. Think about how these monks lived well into the 20th century. No green-houses to grow vegetables all year, no imported frozen Linda McCartney brand meals.
I find this very interesting:
"The Buddha refused and repeated once again the regulation that he had established years before, that monks and nuns may eat fish or meat as long as it is not from an animal whose meat is specifically forbidden, and as long as they had no reason to believe that the animal was slaughtered specifically for them."
Imagine you are the Dalai Lama, and you are invited to a posh dinner. You know that everything that is not consumed the very evening will not be put into the fridge in order to be heated up the next day. If you do not eat what is on your table, it will be thrown away. Similar, most restaurants don't re-use anything that has left the kitchen to keep it sanitary. Soup too salty? The waiter takes it back, but he does not water it down and serves it again. Somebody left a whole sausage on his plate? All this stuff ends up in a barrel that is labeled "Industrial waste". Is it better for the animal to end up in the trash instead of entering your body, nourishing you and somehow giving its life to you?

[–] nuwansube 14 years ago

If no one eat meat, there would be no animals killed for meat.

The lesser the number of people who eat meat, the lesser the market for meat products would be. And as a result, lesser the number of animals killed.

It's not like meat producers decide "lets kill 100,000 animals this year" and kill them anyway, no matter what is the market. If that is the case, then your argument about the sausage on the plate is valid.

"I'm sorry, I don't speak Monkey..."

[–] rosarypliers 14 years ago

I think you fail to understand the situation in rural Tibet during the time the Dalai Lama was born. There war no meat industry at all. The way of life of Tibetans, lay and religious, has been the same for centuries, including nutrition. Yaks are not kept primarily for meat but for dairy: Hot butter tea, more a kind of soup in a Western analogy. Nutritionists consider it an excellent food for that climate. But you cannot actually produce dairy without producing meat, too. Cows give milk only after they have had a calf. If said calf is female, it can become a milk cow, too. But if it is male? Then it's going to meet its maker rather sooner than later.
One last word about fur: Tibetans traditionally use musical instruments (flutes, trumpets) made from HUMAN bones. They don't consider this disrespectful, on the contrary. The body is turned into something beautiful. So they should not object to things made from dead animals, either.

[–] ven_042000 14 years ago

Its something like this, Westerners loves animals but they eat them. How ironical??? they don't like to watch a animal get killed by someone but they do eat the same animal. We are indeed live in the world of ironical.

[–] daisukekamiya-1 13 years ago

Clothing in Tibet is mostly made from wool, which can be taken from the animal every year without hurting it, or occasionally silk which is imported and therefore does not involve Tibetans killing anything.

Whenever animals are killed in Tibet the job is usually left to the nomads (who reside mostly in Amdo, now renamed "Qinghai" after China divided Tibet into several pieces). They try to be as humane as possible, comforting the animal that is to be killed. The sedentary Tibetans often look down on the nomads, but still rely on them quite a lot.

There are rules regarding which animals can be killed and which cannot. Since fish have no voice killing them is especially bad (although I do recall the inhabitants of one very isolated valley with no other food source were allowed to catch fish).

[–] mloessel 10 years ago

There's either a double standard or they wait until the animal has passed on before they use the hide for various articles of clothing. Then there's the scene where Heinrich visits his friend Peter and Peter's wife Pema. As they sit for lunch Heinrich makes a rather insulting remark directed at Peter. The remark stems from a comment Pema makes to Heinrich asking if he has found anyone special (i.e., a lady). Heinrich says, "No", then looks at Peter and asks, "Have you"? Peter looks at him with puzzlement and Pema gently admonishes Heinrich expressing concern that he may feel empty inside because he has found no one to share his life with. Heinrich sits quietly thinking about what Pema said knowing she is right.

Worms wellbeing versus fur caps and clothing.

Worms wellbeing versus fur caps and clothing.